I noticed recently that whenever I talked to my mother, I tempered my feelings by adding the word "just" in front of whatever I was doing. Good things, bad things, anything in my life. It was compulsive on my part. She would ask what I was doing. "Oh, just watching the boys." "Just sitting here." "Just doing housework." But I wasn't "just" doing these things. I was playing with my boys, enjoying the sunset with them, working in my garden, watching cartoons with them snuggled on my lap. A million things. I always felt this compulsion to water down things, to make them more palatable to her. Somehow, I knew that speaking truthfully and happily would upset her, although I really had never connected it it my brain. I did it automatically. And it wasn't always good things I tempered down. Often I was sad, or miserable, or stressed, or sick. But I had to temper that up. I generally didn't share anything of any emotional value. She'd ask if something was wrong, I'd say no, I'm just tired. She'd ask if I was sick. I'd temper it with "It's just a little cold." Because if I gave her any reason to be "concerned" about me, I'd be bombarded by texts and emails and calls checking on me. I couldn't speak about anything in my life, because it caused emotional reactions on her part so out of proportion with the situation, that I couldn't handle it.
So I clammed up. Offered my life up as a vanilla platter. Mediocre. Not good. Not bad. Not that it always helped. Sometimes she'd push. If I said one thing, she'd spin it with an exact opposite statement. No matter what I said, she'd contradict it, often contradicting herself. It was so futile. Finally getting to the extremely non-committal, evened out "just" statements bought me some space. It opened up the floor for her to then talk about herself.
I realized lately that my mother also uses the "just" statements. What are you doing, mom? "Oh, just having a little sandwich." How was your weekend? "Oh, just did work around the house." Tempered, stale, melancholy.
And amazingly, I realized my mother had long joked about her mother saying the exact same things. Grandma was a melancholy "just"ifier, too.
I vowed then and there to stop that shit. No more deception and watered down life. I still find that it is so automatic for me to say "just" that it slips out. Luckily, NM has avoided phone calls with me (don't ask me why. I have no idea. It dances at the back of my mind that there is some ulterior motive or back story to this, but I've chosen to just enjoy the peace.) So, I've had the ability to think or process things before I react. Let my gut punch me first, and then think about what I want to say.
That's amazing Jessie, I do exactly the same thing with my mother: I'm not too happy, I'm not too sad or too ill, etc... I hadn't seen this before. She's slightly different from your mother, in that she gets irritated if I'm not well, so I never tell her about it.
ReplyDeleteIt's good that you're identifying the patterns and stopping them. I've been thinking about my mother's "implanted" behaviours for some time and how to get rid of them too.
My mother actually, I think is irritated too if I'm sad or depressed or sick. She doesn't think I deserve to be sad or stressed because my life doesn't warrant. But she uses is it all to her advantaged. If I'm stressed, she implies I'm weak. If I'm sick, she uses it as an opportunity to look like the "good mom" or uses it to draw attention to herself.
DeleteWhoa dude.
ReplyDeleteBefore I even read more, I have to tell you what I immediately thought of when I read this: "I noticed recently that whenever I talked to my mother, I tempered my feelings by adding the word "just" in front of whatever I was doing."
DH used to say that ALL the time whenever he was talking about (get this) what his NM was doing. And it made me mad because it never seemed honest, and I told him so. Either he wasn't being honest about her behaviors with himself, or he wasn't being honest with me, neither one of things would fly.
I kind of feel like maybe that's where you're going with this. Like the idea that anyone is "just" doing anything when it comes to having a conversation with a narcissist is probably not being fully upfront for some reason.
With DH, I used to tell him that he should never be happy with "just" anything from his NM, so if he found himself saying she was "just" doing this or that, then his expectations were too low.
I told him, "You deserve more than that. So expect more. If she fails to live up to your expectations, it's not your fault."
I think with your DH, saying "just" in relation to her behaviors is also a way of tempering and minimizing. It ignores that there is any ulterior motives. My DH has also used this phrase (she's just excited, she's just a scatter-brain). It's an excuse for them.
DeleteFor my mother (and grandmother) it was always a plea for attention. Like, look at my sad little life. I'm having just a little dinner or just hanging out. It's a big "sigh" on their part meant to elicit sympathy. It is manipulative.
I do think there is a level of "dishonesty" in me saying it to, but I seem to feel it's more in-authenticity (not to play semantics). I am denying being who I am. I'm being reactionary; trying to evade a nasty narc reaction. I can't be happy or NM takes me down a peg. I can't be stressed or she calls me weak. I can't complain about anything or she implies I'm ungrateful and mean. Everything is used against me. I am probably be manipulative (behaving in reaction to the behaviors of others) but I've found it's often the only way to protect myself.
I've even found I do it with NMIL. I've very vague with her as she is such a gossip, she spreads everything I say around. Or, if I'm discussing something I like or do, she'll copy me.
Amazing how many excuses narcissists (and even ACoNs) can come up with, isn't it? To think there are even excuses that consist of merely ONE word that can be used to attempt to minimize huge concepts, spans of time, anything! (I don't mean to say this happens only in the world of a narc - everybody makes excuses sometimes. I'm guilty of it too, we all are. But narcs make a habit of it, they make a living out of it, it's their entire existence).
DeleteI get what you're saying about the difference between your "just" and theirs. You're toning down your "Self" to appear more meek, boring, whatever. Almost to turn the attention AWAY from yourself in some way. To say, "Hey, don't look over here. Don't bother me. Certainly don't attack me. I didn't DO anything." So you stay in the gray zone all the time with them. It's a defense mechanism. It's allowed you to survive. If you're not allowed to feel or portray any of the "extreme" negative (or positive) emotions, then you have to water everything down or else suffer the consequences.
Funny thing: I don't recall you ever using that phrase with me. I'm betting that you're more likely to use it around narcissists than you are with people who are more real with you.
ReplyDelete"I always felt this compulsion to water down things, to make them more palatable to her." There it is. That's what I was thinking. What a great way of describing the phenomenon.
I don't do this in my every day life. Not ever, really. It's just with her and NMIL and NSis. Obviously, I feel I can't be myself with any of them, or there will be consequences.
DeleteNoticing that I couldn't be myself was one of the first things I realized was wrong in my relationship with my family. You should be able to be more yourself with family than any one else.
It is amazing you were able to develop a sense of self at all, under your NM's thumb during your childhood. The fact that you see so much now is a testament to your strength of character and some deep-seeded desire to figure out who Jessie really is: what she stands for, what she values, in which direction her life will head. It's been made harder because of your NPs and all the dysfunction that surrounds you, but it is not impossible.
DeleteI think what will eventually happen is that your NM will tire of your constant desire to be yourself. She'll probably think (if she doesn't already) that you're "abandoning" the person you "used to be." Which is a sad way to look at it, given that you were probably so deeply unhappy and trapped in a cruel world of HER creation. Narcissists are so warped in their thinking.
NM has accused me of abandoning her (or my family) many times.
DeletePhenomenon...that makes the whole thing sound scientific, when it's not. "Learned behavior" is more appropriate, considering that your NM and your grandmother did it too, which is very interesting.
ReplyDeleteHaving said all that, I can also see why you wouldn't want to share your deeper emotions and special moments (or difficult moments) with your NM. Those are mostly dangerous things to share with a narcissist because they always end up using it against you somehow, using it to manipulate you, or pull strings, or dangle a carrot later on, or whatever.
ReplyDeleteThere must be a way around it. But I'm still not for going the route of complete disclosure with a narcissist, any narcissist. There must be a way around this. The problem is that as long as you have ANY relationship with your NM, making these kinds of changes to the status quo will never be easy.
I am working on it. To just be honest but minimal with her. I don't tell her everything, but I'm done numbing myself out. She can say what she likes and I'm trying to not live in reaction to her.
DeleteI believe in you.
DeleteI say "nothing" to NF's "what are you doing?" That feels more honest and normal than minimizing anything. He asks "nothing? really nothing at all?" in a sarcastic way and I respond "really nothing at all (translation: nothing I'm in the mood to share with you).
DeleteI understand not sharing with them about either doing too badly or doing too well - both are causes for THEIR drama which makes it clear, somehow, that they don't really wish you well.
I know I annoyed NF for a while by replying to his "what are you doing?" txts with "enjoying life with my family." Got tired of that after a while.
You don't owe her any reply that makes you uncomfortable. You "just" owe yourself a reply that makes YOU comfortable - whatever it is.
I like that response PA: ""enjoying life with my family."
DeleteThe thing is, I find it creepy that your NF asks "what are you doing?" It's invasive and pushy. None of his business. Maybe we could come up with a list of some of the sort of canned responses you could give to a nosy narcissist whose pushing for too much information. I think maybe that's a good way to go? When they ask too much, you give them the truth without allowing them to cross your boundaries.
I do it too! It's like saying "oh I know you want something and what I'm doing isn't enough for you so I won't give it any weight". I do it a lot with my parents, but especially with my mother. Even though it goes along like: "what are you doing?" (Which I know is just 'nice speak') I'll respond "nothing, just..." And often I get the response "haven't you the life!". As though I'm not doing enough! If I said (and have tried it) "oh sitting here worrying over work, money and my problems and increasing getting depressed" I'd be opening up for her to 'trump' my problems.
ReplyDeleteSo I lie because it's easier.
Good for you for seeing a pattern and wanting to break it. I hope it works, and she begins to see you have a life too!