On Saturday, they showed up at my son's game. They had been told about it, but hadn't confirmed they were coming, so I figured they weren't. No suck luck. MIL bustled immediately next to DH, so close their chairs touched. She then preceded her "interrogation". Or at least that's what if felt like to me. Question after question after question. "Does DS have a woman teacher? Does he eat hot or cold lunch? When does he get home?" "What kind of party is DS having? What decorations did you buy? What is he having a cake or cupcakes? What kind?" Writing it down doesn't sound so bad, but it was just one question after another. There was no "conversation" to the conversation. She would ask a question and DH would answer. And then another immediate question. There was no open ended questions in which a conversation could be sparked. She directed none of the questions at me. DH believes that she is "just trying to make conversation" and "doesn't know what to say". Maybe. Her anxiety is palatable (which is so odd, because she isn't an "anxious" person in general. DH believes that I make her anxious. I also believe that my NM makes her anxious. )
When the woman walked up, I gave a half-assed wave (and I will admit, she makes my skin crawl. I wish, with all I'm worth, that I didn't feel so anxious, angry, and irritated around her. That I could just emotionally disconnect like I've learned to do with my NM. I'm not sure why this is, but I believe it has something to do with her still having "hooks" in my DH and me feeling like she can still control me through him.) I don't make more of an effort because I don't want to encourage her. I am not interested in being her friend or having a relationship. This bothers DH. I am willing to tolerate her and be cordial, but I'm not interested in being friendly. DH sees this as "contributing" to the problem.
But I will point out that MIL didn't say hi to me either. She gave a general wave to the group. Several times she asked questions or made comments that really should've been directed at me. "Wow" she told DH "that's a nice camera you have". I was holding the camera, the whole family knows that I take all the family photos, and she's seen my camera a DOZEN times or more, which made the "compliment" seem phony and bullshitty. I will also say I was anxious about my son's game, tired, stressed from NM, and hadn't made conversation with anyone else either. MIL also proceeded to tell DH who of his brothers were coming to the party the next day. It annoyed me that none of them had bothered to call DH himself. It is this sort of thing that makes me feel enmeshed and icky and like all information has to go through MIL. She has to know EVERYTHING that is going on. But no one else sees it like that.
Anyway, when we got home, DH and I were discussing it and he said he felt we "both contributed" and "both to blame" and that neither of us tried. I suppose this is true, but I told him that I had purposely not made any effort to see what happened. In my analysis of the situation, if I don't approach MIL, if I don't make myself available, then SHE gets all anxious and weird and closes off. I pointed out that both MIL and BIL expect everyone to come to them. And if they don't, then they just ignore you. As MIL and BIL are not shy and are very outgoing people, I can only see this as a self-centered N trait.
The next day at the party, ALL of my ILs came into the party, greeted the woman I was talking to and walked past me. Granted, I had my back to them, but seriously. They know it was me. When I called "hello" to MIL as she skirted past me, she quickly turned, gave a phony
A bit later, NM approached me and relayed a story in which FIL asked if my son would participate in a particular sport (not ironically, the sport my husband was a "star" in and that everyone associates DH with. I am not fond of this sport for a number of reasons. Some of which is that meets take all day and that you often spend most of your weekend at them, as opposed to say baseball where you spend a couple of hours one day. I also think some of the things children are expected to do for this sport are not healthy. And I don't want to push my kid to do something just because his dad did. And my kid already does other sports. Plus I want him in other activities BESIDES sports.) Anyway, NM said "Jessie doesn't want him to." FIL replied "so it's all about Jessie?"
I'll admit, this one crushed me. I know they think I control my kids and DH. I know they think I'm over cautious with my kids and uptight. But it hurt to hear him say this about me. I thought I, slightly, had an ally with FIL. And the truth is, this sport is what FIL wants DS to do. FIL also was very pushy in having DH do this sport. In fact, FIL is often to wrapped into sports and I think it is his way of escaping reality. He can talk sports with his kids and think he's connecting. I've often seen him retreat into sports during family functions. I even found him in the bar during my wedding reception watching a football game.
In addition, I was giving several other bits of bad news. And my girl, who keeps claiming she wants to be my friend, who I've confided in about my family issues, who knows these parties are hard for me, decided to DROP OFF HER DAUGHTER SO SHE COULD GO SHOPPING. She could see I was visibly shaken when she stopped and still left.
MIL approached me and my son later with some more of her interrogations. She wonders why the kids don't have a relationship with her, but all she does is fire off questions. She doesn't take time to really listen or ask them things so that THEY can talk and share with her. During the party she stood between the two play areas. This is typical for her. She doesn't bother to go in, play with the kids, or interact (all other parents do, except my FIL who, surprise, watches football). She also approached me toward the end of the party and asked "Can I put the food away?" I'd already put away most of it, but left out the snacks, as we had 20 more minutes. It always drives me nuts how she only offers to help with very specific jobs. She doesn't ask what she can do, but offers up what she wants to do. And if you say yes, she doesn't ask how you'd like things (like where to put them) but just starts stuffing things wherever. NM does the same thing. I'm sure I'm being petty, but it doesn't feel like they are helping when they are steam rolling over me and not asking how I need things done.
SIL spoke to me briefly. BIL (MIL's GC) didn't say hi at all. This is a game we play, as I rarely say hi to him because I (accidently) discovered that if I didn't approach him (over a year ago) he just ignored me. For an entire year, I just didn't say hello first. And he just ignored me. When I did say hello, he would talk to me. It's very, very strange.
I went home from the party shattered. I was bummed I had such a horrible time and had ended up in a back room crying by myself. I felt horrible that I couldn't enjoy my son's party. I felt sad and guilty that I was having drama during his party. I only hope that I pulled myself together enough and that he didn't notice. I really tried to connect with the children (and a few adult friends) and stay out of the fray. I didn't say anything to MIL, and she kept dancing around me, but I had no desire at that point.
DH was oblivious to all of this all. When we got home, I left the kids to play with their toys and my stepdad and went to cry (again) in my walk in closet. He came to find me and I could see he was visibly shaken when I told him what happened. He was kind and consoling, but he didn't say that his father was wrong. He said he was surprised his dad said that and was sure he was joking. I said, even if he was joking, it wasn't very kind.
DH didn't sleep at all that night. He is so upset about this all. I think he KNOWS how things are. I mean, he can't deny that his parents don't make an effort to actually get to know his kid. That just "being in the room" with them doesn't count. That his brothers are horribly uncles who only pay attention to the kids when they want to. That they don't make any effort to actually be involved with our kids. He can't deny that the family has issues.
But he can NOT let go of the fact that he wants is family in his life. The next day I told him that by making a big deal out of his parents or uncles throwing crumbs at our kids, he is teaching them that is all they are worth. He said I'm teaching our kids that I can't have a decent relationship with ANYONE in the family (I pointed out later that this is a generalization and splitting and just not true). I pointed out that I have just as good a relationship with most of them as he does. I'm just not satisfied with surface-y relationships and relationships in which real love and support and affiliation is absent.
I know this is killing DH. I know he wants a big family, huge celebrations, love and support. I get that. But he can't get that he never had that BEFORE I pointed it out. That, many years ago, when I DID TRY, the relationship wasn't any better. That NM and my sister (yes, he threw my sister at me) are impossible to have a family relationship with. He knows that this is a particular vulnerable thing for me, to say it's just me, and saying that NM and my sister is my problem is just bullshit. And he knows it too. And frankly, I think I have been dealing with NM just fine, considering I haven't completely cut her off.
I don't know where to go from here with him about this. He seems stuck in the "put up with it" phase. Or the denial phase. Or somewhere in between. He simultaneously tells me that my mother and sister are the craziest people he's every met, that he doesn't like either of them, but then tells me that I'm teaching my kids not to have relationships with immediate family. I feel stuck, as what he says is technically true. I am keeping my mother and sister at arm's length. But that's due to THEM, not me.
We've been going around this all for two days. I get that he's feeling sad and depressed. I've told him I'm not asking him to cut off his family, only to look at it realistically. To quit putting more into it (and describing it) as more than it is. To get rid of some of that baggage so we can make room for people who really do love us. To try and help me work on healthy boundaries, healthy ways of interacting (with them and us) so that we can teach our kids that. To set boundaries with his family. To stick up and protect his wife and kids from their scapegoating and favoritism (did I mention MIL blatantly favors my older son? This is one of the things that has finally helped DS see the light.)
I get how hard this is for him, the grieving, the denial, the wanting it to be different. And I'm thankful he's not so anger and completely blaming me anymore. I've seen his empathy for me and his commitment to our marriage and family grown. I know he can look at our boys (whom everyone says are so smart, well behaved, sweet, and considerate) and see that, if I was the stingy bitch they think I am, the kids wouldn't be so great (a lot is just because I have great kids, but I have helped). I just don't know how to move from here. I don't know what to do. I know that I'm ready to speak up, and fuck them if they don't like it. I know that I'm going to try to focus on what I want and need and not feel guilty. I just don't know if he can go there.
Congratulations for surviving the weekend. I suspect you are beating yourself up for not doing it with more grace but the bottom line is you made it through the weekend. What are you planning for fun for you? Hardest thing in the world is getting someone else see what they are used to seeing but differently. Cheering for you. Ruth
ReplyDeleteWell, at least it is over. The part of your post that stuck out most to me is your MIL asking why she doesn't have a relationship with your kids. I didn't see if you told her that she needs to make more of an effort at their level. They are only young children and it's so typical that even at such a young age they(narcs) expect a child to do all the work. Anyway, glad you made it through. I think in time your DH will finally get it. It took mine quite a while. He now sees it full force with my in-laws. It makes him sad too. There are times he has said to me that sometimes he wished he didn't know what he knows about narcissism like he does now. I'm not really sure what that means but maybe before he knew, he was not as sad as much but more frustrated. I much would rather know what I'm dealing with so I know how to respond. You did your best. Pat yourself on the back. I'm sure it was a great party to your guests. - Kel Ann
ReplyDeleteI believe that you handled the weekend extremely well. There was a lot going on with a lot of angles from all the in-laws to your friend leaving her children with you.
ReplyDeleteI feel so much from your story and it still throws me for a loop that your in-laws behaviours and what your DH is going through and what you are going through are similar to my situation.
The interrogation is exactly what happens with my in-laws. They ask so many close-ended questions. I was reading about it and the question asker controls the conversation and in a way is silencing the other from sharing more. Interrogation's purpose is to control.
I can understand how you felt about the comment your NM made "Jessie doesn't want them too". I suspect that she is staying these things subtly (maybe?) because you are standing up to her, changing your behaviours and setting boundaries. It is amazing how something gets twisted in unhealthy families.
I think that you have made progress and are teaching your children that they are worth having healthy relationships. I think that you will find the next step for you. I have had some of the same struggles with my DH's denial and he may or may not be able to move in the next steps I'm taking with my in-laws. He seems half way there and then goes back to denial. In some ways, I feel that my next steps with my in-laws are not in sync with his and that is a little bit scary for me.
I hope the coming days allow some N free time and down time. xxTR
Again, thank you for your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, your similarities in story are so comforting, in that I'm not alone. Or crazy.
"The interrogation is exactly what happens with my in-laws. They ask so many close-ended questions. I was reading about it and the question asker controls the conversation and in a way is silencing the other from sharing more. Interrogation's purpose is to control" This is extremely helpful and interesting. DH keeps saying she just wants to be friendly, but it doesn't FEEL that way to me. I don't feel it as outright aggressive, but it feels invasive. (And she does it often, not just with DH). I think you are right about it being about control. It seems to soothe her anxiety (not generated by me) as she feels "in control" when she knows everything that is going on. I also think it subtly gives the message that she feels left out. However, it's difficult to share any information with her when it feels like she's yanking it out of you. And then she uses it against you or gossips it. That's not fun either. She doesn't understand the privilege of confiding (even if it's not something particularly private) and that every piece of information she gleans doesn't need to be shared, or that she should allow others to share that information (she likes to be "in the know" and tell everybody everything about everybody else.)
Nm's ability to twist whatever the hell was sad is AMAZING. I tend to have a very photographic memory (I used to transcribe conversations for a job; listen to them and write them down) . I know that I don't remember everything perfectly, but I tend to remember them much more accurately than NM, MIL, or FIL. They can quickly tweak things to suit their purposes.
DH's denial and realizations are really hard. When he goes back to being in denial, he often has to "prove" how wrong I am to justify it and that sucks, as it undermines his support that he has given. And I don't think he's ready to make changes either. He's had most of these friends, and been over enmeshed with his family, for decades. (The town he's from is very closed and they often don't move outside of a circle of people who are all from that town. Most of them end up moving back. Often with their parents. It is a very clique town and it greatly reduces their ability to see past their own asses. I told DH it's like they live under a dome and can't imagine life outside the borders.) I get it's sad to give up friendships you've had for 30 years, or realize that your family isn't as close, kind, thoughtful, or supportive as you thought. But until he does, we can't move on.
I'm also afraid of moving on with out him. In fact, that part used to terrify me and paralyzed me for years. I thought if I didn't go along, our relationship wouldn't survive. However, I've decided that if he can't support me, and wishes to leave me because I won't wallow in the dysfunction than I'll deal with that (being able to do this came with A LOT of work in my self-esteem/self worth area.)
Unfortunately, MIL is already pushing to come to more sporting events for my kids and will be in town off and on (every other weekend or so) for the next few months. Fall is my FAVORITE season and it really pisses me off that I have to feel so anxious and tense wondering when she'll show up and drop bombs.
Thanks for stopping by TR. I appreciate your thoughts and your comments. I hope you are well (or hanging in there).
Hi Jessie,
ReplyDeleteI feel comforted too and I am learning a lot from you sharing your experiences.
DH and I have stopped sharing any information with them. It got to the point where MiL would ask me: "Was the airport busy?" (when we flew in) and then turn around and call her friend and tell her friend "TR said the airport was so busy and you might want to be concerned about your daughter coming in." WHY?!!! Even something as 'trivial' as that gets twisted and lied about. You are right, they don't understand confidences and that sharing info about others is such a boundary violation. My MiL liked to be in the know as well. Ugh - the town crier! Now, FiL fulfills this role. I am working on a way to address this with him when he tells us information about others. I haven't figured out how I'm going to do it yet.
Your DH's upbringing is similar. In fact, my DH would like to return to his hometown. He has had the same friends since his school years and would love to go back. And with his friends, he can't see that a majority of them treat him terribly and transfer shame to him and use him.
You have done a lot of work and it shows and coming to that understanding that you have with not dealing with dysfunction and what may come of it head on is inspiring to me.
Fall is my favorite season too and I can imagine knowing that there will be extra visits is not fun. The fact that she shows up and drops a bomb is not right. When coming by it is so 'normal' to call someone up and say 'hey, I'm coming by tomorrow for a game, would it work for you?' Nope. It doesn't work like that, does it?
I have been doing okay, I've been going through a rough period this past summer and I am hoping that the fall goes better. Dealing with anger and trying to work through this emotion. xxTR
Morning TR,
DeleteI'm sorry to hear you've had a rough summer. Anger can be really hard to process. It's hard to separate out the emotion and sit with it long enough to figure out where it's coming from. Allowing myself to be angry (but, of course, not throw things, yell, scream, and take it out on others) has been hard for me as well.
Yes, you would think they could just call and let us know what was going on. But the thing is, even when they DO call, it's last minute. It used to drive me crazy, because DH would hold open the weekend, knowing they were coming, but not actually have any plans with them.....and he would say he was not holding the weekend open. It was so frustrating. I felt like we were always working around them. And also, when they would make plans, they thought nothing of switching them if it suited them (once, they were too lazy/hung over - they don't drink a ton, but had this night - to get up in time to visit. So, they just called and announced they'd be coming later, right during DS's naptime.) And when they come, they rarely try to work around our schedule (nap times, dinner times) and just come when it's convenient for them.
Thanks you for your praise about the work I've done. Sometimes I fell like I'm running in circles. DH and I have been together for over 16 years and married for 13, so sometimes it seems like I've been doing this FOREVER. And the first several years were really, really, really hard.
I'm thankful my DH doesn't want to return to his hometown. I've always refused and told him if he wanted to go, he could go alone. It's a depressing, clique place to me and the whole town seems to think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's a joke in our state about how arrogant (and undeservedly so) this town is. I'm thankful that DH has started to see how his friends are not kind to him, are not friends to him, and only use him when they need him. This wasn't always so, and long ago, one of DH's friends (who is a clear N) almost undid our relationship. In fact, when I met DH, his friends purposely "put me through the wringer" (their exact words) to try and prove if I was "good enough" for DH (I should've ran at that point. Lucky for DH, I didn't. :) ) And I think DH would still count them as "best" friends if they hadn't flaked on him so much in the past few years. It's hard to call someone a friend when they actively avoid you (that's a long story). I really feel for you having your husband wanting to go back to his hometown. It's like going into the lion's den, right?
The airport thing cracked me up, only because that is EXACTLY what MIL does. It is just so insane to me that people do that. It always made me feel so used. Like I am just a conduit of information, a place to poach ideas, and an incubator for MIL's children. She'll easily ignore me if I can't provide her with anything. I have refused to tell her anything at all, as she spreads it far and wide. But she needles DH all of the time and can pull information out of him (which I think was some of her point at the game, that she can still get information out of DH and there is nothing I can do to stop that. It's a boundary issue with her.) It's hard to get him to understand that she is NOT interested in HIM but in the information.
I'm glad we can share TR. We'll get through this together. I hope you can write about some of your recent struggles this summer. It might help to get it out and process your thoughts. Of course, that's only if you want to. XX Jessie
YES! Allowing myself to be angry, I did some unhealthy of expressions of it this at the start of summer and then I went to therapy to help me with it.
DeleteThe not making plans and holding the weekend open is very frustrating for me too. Trying to accommodate others and taking that responsibility on got to such an enough limit for me - exhaustion mostly. I realized recently that I was actually taking on their responsibility. This was hard for me to stomach.
I can imagine how awful that is to be 'put through the wringer', having to prove you are worthy. Argh. Indeed, he is lucky and it seems like he is more aware of their inappropriate behaviors.
I think you are right. They are, in a way, using us. It is like they can twist stuff and not take responsibility for what they say because there is always the scapegoat.
Amen, we will get through this together. As soon as I can sort out what is actually going on, I will write about it. For now, my thoughts are all over the place and very chaotic. xxTR