My mother has always been taller than me. By more than just a few inches. She's also much bigger than me. Not heavy, or overweight. She's just big boned. And I'm petite and lanky.
So, it's been easy to always feel like adult and child. Like she's the adult and I'm the child. I've long struggled to feel grown up around her.
I remember before I really learned about narcissism, I never felt grown up. I'm sure I've written about it before on here. And I'm not talking about not feeling my age. I had never felt grown up and autonomous. I'd never felt like an individual person. I felt silly putting on jewelry and dressing in more womanly clothes. I always felt like other women around me had themselves much more put together than me.
Slowly, as I learned about narcissism, my feelings of feeling like a child started to dissipate. It was one of the first things I tried to do in order to change things around. I started to feel more in control. I tried to quiet the feelings of anxiety I felt whenever I didn't do what NM wanted. I tried to remember that I was in charge of my life. I tried to be content with making my own decisions and not worrying about what NM would think about it. Or her reaction. Or her retribution. Because, really, she couldn't actually DO anything to me. She's not like that. The worse she does is guilt, and shame, and pout. And I can ignore that.
But recent dealing with my mother have reminded me that becoming "un-enmeshed" is a lot harder than it looks. Especially when the other person refuses, REFUSES, to acknowledge that you are a separate person.
I had some family photos taken and I told NM that the photographer had put a few up, but that I would get more later. I always give her a copy of all the professional photos I get taken and allow her to print from those. But, apparently, she didn't want to wait for that this time. She didn't ask if she could print any, didn't ask how to even get prints, but just copied them straight of FB to print. And although it may seem like a silly thing, I felt violated. Like she hadn't any respect for me as a grown ass woman of my own. That those were MY photos that I had paid for, and although I was more than willing to share, she shouldn't just TAKE them. That we are not this blob where everything belongs to everyone.
She's always been like this. I've never had privacy. She's never respected my rights to keep some things to myself. She's insisted, demanded, details on anything and everything she feels like. Recently, my father came to visit and she's (slyly, in her mind) asked several times how the trip went. I've refused to tell her because she's just trying to be snoopy. She's not interested in how the visit went for ME, but is interested in my father (and his wife) and if my kids love him more than her. And crap like that.
When she's in my home, she doesn't respect my privacy. She feels free to wonder back to my bedroom, to come in when it's I'm trying to get away for a second. She doesn't allow that my husband and I, as adults, may need some privacy to discuss things that are none of her business. She'll but into conversations from another room "WHAT?! What's going on?" "Nothing" is not a good enough answer for her. I've seen her linger in a room to listen to my husband on phone conversations. They aren't private conversations, per se, but they have nothing to do with her and she's being rude, in my opinion.
When she visits, I'm under constant surveillance. If I leave the room, she wants to know where I'm going. And why. And when I'll be back. She requires constant companionship when she visits. If my husband spends time in the evening away from her and my step dad (as they sit and watch TV and search their phones. It's not like they are offering conversation) she insists on knowing where he went. On why he isn't spending time with them. She doesn't take walks, or read a book, or offer to entertain herself in ANY way. Even simple things like "I'm going to get the mail" are met with annoyingly shrill "THE MAIL?!? Why would you need to get the mail NOW!" Because I fucking want to, that's why. And really, because the she is smothering me and suffocating me and I need some fucking air. And she knows that's the REAL reason. That's why she asks. But I can't say that.
She snoops through all of my FB stuff. I can't comment on anyone else's things, or she'll know. She stalks me in that respect. Which, I really wouldn't care, but then she feels she has the right to ASK me about things she's learned by snooping. It doesn't occur to her that if I don't offer information, I don't want to discuss it with you. After I posted a recent album of photos, she looked through it, at least, eight times. Like in a row. It just sort of creeps me out. Like she's sucking some sort of weird supply by just looking at the photos. It's obsessive, really.
She snoops through my stuff. My husband is sure she snoops through our mail and banking info and other things. I've never caught her but I know it is a personal concern of her's that other people are snooping. I always thought that meant that she'd respect OTHER people's privacy. I'm sure it's just projection on her part: she snoops, so she believes everyone else does too.
She used to snoop through my son's closet when he was born. I'm sure she was checking to see if I was using the clothes she bought for him (she used to buy really "cutsy" outfits for him that were impractical for a newborn. We argued often about it because I felt she was wasting her money. She felt she was "being nice" and that I should be grateful.)
And when she's here, she sort of takes over as parent. Like she's part of the "parenting team". And I'm not talking about correcting the kids here or there, or keeping an eye out on them. She wants to take over. Once, when we went shopping I was trying to load up the stroller. When I turned to get something else, she grabbed the stroller and took off. She was bound and determined that SHE was going to be the one to push my kid. As I called for her to come back, so I could finish up packing, she just kept going, faster and faster, ignoring me. I finally yelled. She came back, begrudgingly, and never apologized for leaving me behind (I mean the damn car doors weren't even shut before she barreled off). She mimics me (literally) as I say things to my kids. For example: "It's time to come up for dinner, boys." And before my kids even have a chance to respond, she starts in "Come on. Come on. It's time for dinner. Let's go. Hurry up." It drives my older son nuts. So much so, that he's told her that she doesn't need to "tell me things when my mom is here." It happens constantly. It's like having a parrot. I feel like it not only undermines me, but gives the message that she thinks I'm not handling it right. I don't need her "help". She seems to think I do. She parrots everything I say, steps in in front of my husband, and tries to take over. It is so frustrating.
She feels like (and tells me) that she knows me better than anyone. She assumes she knows how I feel, knows what I will do, knows what I want. She doesn't allow, at all, that she might not know the every crevice of my mind. She does things, assuming she knows how I will do them. In fact, she PRIDES herself on being able to know how I want things done. The thing is, I often don't want things done like she does them. And even if I do, a little respect, taking a backseat once in a while, communicating a desire to want to know how I like something, would go far with me. But she can't give that to me.
And I've recently discovered how much like a child it makes me feel. That it's hard to feel "grown up" when someone is constantly pushing your "autonomy" boundary. When someone treats you like a child. When someone feels that nothing you are belongs to you. That your kids, your home, your life is all up for grabs. That she is entitled to it all, without any respect due to me. That she can speak for me, make plans for me, and take from me without asking. Enmeshment makes me feel helpless and smothered. I feel claustrophobic and suffocated.
I'm trying to figure out how to enact these last boundaries. I've pushed her back in a lot of ways. She doesn't go willingly. In fact, she pouts and wallows in it. But generally she does it away from where I can see it. I've gotten a lot better at ignoring her blatant attempts to guilt and manipulate me. But I don't know how to fully un-do the enmeshment. I'm not sure exactly how I can fully be myself while she's trying to smother me and cover over me.
Boundaries are so difficult. It's like we need to be a mile away from a situation (distance? time?) to finally see what/where/who/when. And how to maybe fix it.
ReplyDeleteAll I can offer you is that YOU ARE NOTICING. Good lord Jessie! You have made so many leaps and bounds! Others can give you the nuts and bolts of stuff (lock down your FB. Do not take shit from her about that she doesn't get to pick. Change the locks on your doors if you have to. Get a locking mailbox - huh, look at that I had assvice anyway, sorry) but man - you are doing this so much sooner than most of us ever did.
If you cannot move away physically, I guess the point is you have to move away psychically. She sounds just awful. Hang in there.
Thanks Gladys. I do live a days drive away from her. So, I get some peace. But she's always there, buzzing around. Lurking.
DeleteI think you have some good assive! My mailbox does lock, and she doesn't just come in my home. Thank God. And lots of her snooping is done that is really hard to catch. And I'm trying to speak up when I can. But dang, with her, I would be talking all day if I constantly confronted her boundary violations. And she can be very difficult when you confront her. Not that I can't do it, but all day long confrontation with her is exhausting.
And she's been pushing to visit more. Again. She was just here just over a month ago. And she's been pushing in around the edges a bit. It's been a lot and I supposed I'm just feeling tired and overwhelmed by it. Like it's nothing to overt on her part, so I'm trying to hold down all these corners so she doesn't sneak in the holes.
Good to hear from you Gladys!
Teehee - "Assive." I know you're tired, so I'm not making fun. I just think that's a particularly funny typo. :)
DeleteAnd you know - that's one of the many things I dislike about FB - all that snooping. It creeps me out. Is there a way to block your NM from seeing certain photos, even though she is your friend?
DeleteJonsi, I was meaning to copy Glady's "assvice" from above. It must have gotten changed to assive. OOPS ;). Her's is funny, mine might be offensive. Sorry Gladys!
DeleteI know when I post certain things I can block it from showing up on her wall. But if she goes to my page, I'm not sure that it would keep it from her. Unfortunately, it's really kept me from posting things I'd like to share with some of my extended family.
DeleteAnd really, I wouldn't care if she was looking at things. I mean, it is sort of public. It's just the extent to which she looks through things. Keeping tabs on me. Or that she catalogues it and uses it later in her schemes. Or uses it as proof that I'm "keeping" things from her. Blech. It's all so invasive. I tried for a long time to not have her be on FB. I actually refused MIL's friend request. But I haven't been able to axe out NM yet.
My mother is both taller than me by a few inches and also she's obese. I always feel as if I am shrinking when around her. I think it's because she wants to swallow me whole.
ReplyDelete"swallowed whole" That's exactly it. I always feel swallowed up, devoured.
DeleteOh god. This makes me feel so icky. The whole thing is just so...well, icky. Creepy. It gives me the scheeves. DH recently told me (recently, as in a few days ago) that he still doesn't feel like an adult. Like if he's with someone his own age or older than him, he feels like a kid in a big person's body. Which I understand - I understand how he came to feel that way, how he was made to feel that way for so many years, how he was taught that he would never be an autonomous adult or an "equal." It makes me so angry when I think about his father's toxic religious dogmas because for all those years (and still now) the man has set himself up as a "god" of sorts that he expects DH to bow down to; and NMIL, with all of her constant boundary crossing and inappropriate sexual nods towards a little boy she treated like a spouse. So now he's stuck in this place where, as a fully grown man with children of his own, he often sees himself as a little boy or a child. And how can you demand respect from anyone if you see yourself in that way? I think a lot of the problem now centers around the under-development of his self-esteem.
ReplyDeleteSo the good news is, of course, that you can continue working on your self-esteem and taking steps in the direction of true adult autonomy. And you can keep fighting the good fight. I still believe so much of it is in the recognition of what is going on as it happens. And you're getting so good at that - being able to catch your NM in the act, calling her out on it when possible, learning how to avoid so much of her nonsense. It'll keep getting better for you, even if your mother remains as nauseating as ever in her attempts for total control.
Thanks Jonsi. It is getting better. It is just so hard sometimes. Exhausting.
DeleteI think part of feeling like a child is self esteem issues. Not trusting ourselves. Not believing in ourselves. Really not knowing who the hell we are.
I think some of it is just the dirty work of "growing up". We were never really allowed that. I was thinking about it the other day, how my NM is sort of frozen at 14. She was the oldest girl and took on the "mother" role to her three siblings. She was often in charge. Mommy's little helper. And so, she learned to be a mother at age 14. But a 14 really knows shit about being a real mother. I always felt like she was a "big sister", not fully grown herself. And I feel even more like that now. Like I was raised by my big sister, and not my mother. And if she was my "role model" of what being an adult was, I was screwed. So, I'm stuck trying to figure out how to "grow up". Like seriously, go through that process. And it's not really easy as someone in their 30s.
This makes a lot of sense Jess, because when you look at your NM's behaviours, she is just like an entitled teenager. A girl in her early teens is right. I thought it was interesting that she (and her husband) would not offer conversation but still expect your DH to hang around for the evening. That's the same as my parents. It's like they just want you to be part of a "picture" or something. I've never understood how they can expect anyone to put up with that :P
DeleteYes, it's crazy that she requires constant "attending to". Yet, when we are at her house, her husband always disappears for his own TV room in the evening. And at her home, she will disappear to do a chore, or work on things. She just goes about her business, cleaning house, looking at her computer. Not to say that these are completely bad things. I think if someone is staying at your home for a few days, it's good to spend some time doing other things. In fact, I need that from house guests. People that suck up all of my time and require that constant attention wear me out. Everyone needs some time to themselves. But she expects us to be there every second she wants us to be. It makes her visits completely overwhelming.
DeleteMy counselor gave me a very cool word that helped me understand my mother's treatment of me. He talked about individuation. What you describe is what my mother did to me too. She treated me like an extension of herself....she doesn't see me as a separate individual. A lot has changed since I did the research on that word. I hope it helps you like it did for me. Cheering you on as you set your boundaries. You deserve to be treated with respect. Hugs to you.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Ruth.
DeleteWhen they start pushing harder, you know you're making progress, Jessie. It's like they're constantly monitoring all *their* vitals regarding how successful their efforts to remain Engulfed are working. IMO, she senses you're seeing through her and her mechanizations and is now pushing for another visit to check her perceptions and reinforce "Who's *really* the Boss." I think she's starting to panic because she senses she's loosing Power and Control.
ReplyDeleteYk, I always felt I had to explain myself to Psychob. It was never acceptable to say, "No" and have it accepted. Ever. So I was well trained not to say that word, was well versed in terms of finding synonyms for it followed by an "'splination to mommy." She didn't even have to ask for one, I was already on it. (Little Me, BIG Her.) Yk what she said to me if I dared ask why (about anything)? "Because I said so." End of discussion. If I had to do it over, I'd say "NO! HELL NO!" and when she got all huffy or pathetic and demanded "WHY?" you know what my response would be now!
In your response to Jonsi above, you nailed all the critical issues that form the core Legacy of ACs: Lack of confidence in ourselves and our perceptions and as a result, difficulty trusting self or others, lack of faith in our inherent goodness and right to be treated with dignity and respect as autonomous human beings and trying to negotiate the normal Stages of Human Growth and Development with a proverbial arm tied behind our back-and the NP(s) yanking that arm back further. So we have the Cluster B Parental Commandments: Thou shalt not grow beyond me; thou shalt not eclipse me in education, family matters or any other arena; thou shalt not differentiate from me, otherwise I have no self/Identity; thou shalt not rebuff my interference in your life no matter how outrageous; thou shalt not place any other god(dess) before me; thou shalt not call me on my Engulfment of you and yours (as I attempt to overwhelm you and herd you back into the "family blob") anything but "love" and "concern;" thou shalt not dare look behind the curtain to the powerless being I truly am for I derive all my power from your compliance. For I am you and you are me and I envy you beyond all reason or rationality: Without "you" there is no "me."
Jessie, it IS exhausting in every way. This is the cost of LC-I'm not going to dress it up or BS you. You, OTOH are doing fantastically well: The ability to clearly see while in the middle of the "Family Blob" indicates mentally/psychologically you've distanced yourself and are very quickly psychosocially growing beyond your "mother" and your family dynamics. To attain that degree of detachment and individuation is huge, IMO. This achievement speaks to the reality you *are* growing and "growing up" even as you contemplate the "How To."
Many, many times I've had people tell me, "I just can't do this! I don't know how!" And when I point out to them that in fact even as they're saying this, their behavior/responses belies the reality they already ARE! ;) You are, Jessie and You.Are.Jessie: More so all the time.
It's a joy to see your hard work paying off, even if you can't right now.
TW
Thanks, TW. I love your commandments of ClusterBs. Sums it up well.
DeleteI do see the progress I've made. I think that's partially what's so hard. When she comes around, or pushes to visit, it's all I can do to push off the sucking vortex she creates around her. To push past HER delusions of who I am and remain true to myself despite her continual refusal to acknowledge it. It can be crazy making.
I also really struggle to feel grown up. I've always felt like I had no idea of how to be an adult and I was just making it up as I went along. I know what you mean about wearing jewellery and womanly clothes, I would see my friend Belle doing this and making it look so natural, whereas I would feel like I was in fancy dress if I wore similar things. I guess partly the trick is to try out new things until they do feel like ourselves -as separate beings from our NMs.
ReplyDeleteI also had a friend that always seemed so "womanly" and she made it seem effortless. I always wondered how she did that.
DeleteI spent much of my 20s in confusion as to why I didn't feel like "myself" whenever my mother was around. I definitely had my own ideas and feelings about what I liked and didn't, but when she was around, it was like she was shoving me back into that box. I couldn't figure out how she did that to me. What was it that made me feel like I had to take on an "assigned character" whenever she was around? Why did I feel like a completely DIFFERENT person whenever she (or NSIS) wasn't around.
I'm really trying to work out how to not get sucked into behaving how she wants me to, not fall for her traps, to accept my rights and responsibilities as a separate person. To not feel like the helpless child she has convinced herself I am (which is how she relates to me. Like I'm some sort of rebellious, disturbed child).
I think if I finally believe I am a grown up, believe in my rights of "seperateness", than I won't feel so guilty and reactionary when she tries to push past my boundaries.
I feel weird when I would try to do anything different with my physical appearance than what my mother wanted to look like. She always wanted my hair pulled back off my face (half pony tail style). It took me a long time to let my hair down (literally) and then to even get bangs (at 28).
ReplyDeleteI think you are doing great and I can understand how exhausting is with these behaviours and on top of it, you would have to confront her all day long, as you say, adding to the exhaustion.
When I realised that my FiL was crossing my 'no' boundaries I did a lot of qualifying. And I'm going to try just saying 'no' with no explanation - a simple No. Because trying to make them understand after trying so many times doesn't seem to work; plus, I think when someone crosses a boundary physically - like grab something from us or take it or going through stuff - it is such a violation when we say No that it is mine to grab back. I have a big problem with the physical boundary stuff (huge trigger) that this may be extreme but after saying No and its mine to begin with, I take it back.
Realising it in real time is a big step. Hugs, TR
Thanks, TR
DeleteThe physical boundary stuff is a big deal to me too.