Releasing the past in order to find myself

Wednesday, September 19, 2012

Wisdom of a Community

So, some questions have been banging around in my head lately.  I am hoping that any of you, or all of you, will have some insights for me.  I welcome anyone, and everyone, to offer up thoughts on anything or everything.  

1.  Enmeshment:  So, I get it.  I've read a lot about it.  I've seen the defintions.  In theory, I get it.  But what does it really look like in a narcissistic family?  Do you have some examples from your life or those you've seen written about.  How can you distinguish a "close" family from an "enmeshed" family?  And I've seen the examples about the family who pressures the kids into the family business, etc.  I'm looking for more "everyday" examples...does that make sense?  Also, any good websites or articles on enmeshment would be appreciated.  

2.  How do I know if I actually am over-analyzing something?  I know that in the past I've been told I'm over-analyzing things in order to get me to back down.  It has been used against me.  But, could it be possible, that I am, at times, over analyzing?  Am I reading into things too much?  Am I stuck into thinking about narcissistic personality traits, that I'm applying them to everyone?  Or am I really just attracting narcs like fly paper?  And on the same hand (but opposite fingers), how do I know if I'm being oversensitive?  We speak a lot about sensitivity being used as a character flaw against us inappropriately.  But are their times when I am just oversensitive?  Do I need to let some things roll off my back more?  Are their times I take things personally that are not really about me?

3.  Which leads me to...where is the line between "putting myself first, prioritizing me, protecting myself" and being self-absorbed and narcissistic?  Sometimes, all of this putting myself first stuff makes me feel selfish.  Sometimes I feel, that by not reaching out and extending myself, I'm being self-absorbed.   I hope that makes sense.  I mean, where do my self-preservation begin and my fleas end?

4.  How much support should I have/should I now offer to my sister?  She didn't call me, she hasn't told me, she sends messages through my parents.  We were not on "unfriendly" terms before this but this newest development doesn't surprise me?  What are my obligations to her?  I've reached out twice.  Do I just let it go now?  NM likes to preach "taking the high road" and not dropping down to someone else's level (ironic, huh?).  But I do wonder.  Am I punishing her for not telling me by not calling her again?  How far do I extend myself out?  I don't feel like it is a vindictive move on my part to not contact her again.  I don't feel anger towards her for it.  It sometimes feels like a relief.   Finally, just getting it out of the way and giving up the "pretend" relationship.  But am I just being stubborn?

5.  Where is the difference between NC, or even LC, and "withholding" one's self?  I saw a talk show today.  The one daughter, the obvious scapegoat, was discussing her abuse with her mother.  Of course, the golden child other daughter jumped on.  This talk-show host introduced the subject as "turning her back" on her family.   Is this just what we are up against as ACoNs?  Having the fucking world think we are turning our backs by establishing boundaries, refusing to be hurt?  Is it ever a punishment someone chooses to inflict on someone by withholding themselves?  Is it just a more amped-up version of  "I'm not talking to you"?  (And, I must say as I write this, I hope no one gets offended.  I'm not judging or suggesting that any NC ACoN is playing this game.  In fact, as I wrote this, a light bulb went off and I realized...The "I'm not talking to you" game is meant to control and demand behavior out of someone else.  Going NC has nothing to do with controlling someone else, but rather, taking control of our own lives....So, maybe I answered my own question.)

And lastly, (although I think I have more questions that will pop up.  Be prepared for Post of Questions #2):

6.  How do I reconcile the fact that I do feel empathy for my mother and sister?  They are both ACoNs too. And in fact, my grandmother was a much worse narcissist than my mother.  I know that that does not excuse my NM's behavior towards me.  But she did, somewhat, try to do better than her mother (a fact she never lets me forget).   She was better.  She made progress.  Her progress has allowed me to be a better mother.   And hopefully, my kids will be better parents than me.  But progress does not excuse or erase her behavior. I empathize with what she went through.  And it's hard for me to line up these two images I have of her.  The narcissistic banshee that continually rips out my soul and the lost little girl who was treated horribly.   That somehow, didn't stand a chance.  Even my sister.  I know what she went through.  And even though she was the GC, she was also the rebel, so life could often be very, very much worse for her.  Her childhood was no picnic either.  Yet, she treats me horribly.  She treats damn near everyone horribly.  How do I let go of that little, little girl that I wanted to protect (and still want to protect) like she was my own daughter?  How do I stop allowing my empathy for my mother's wounded little girl from coloring my abilities to set boundaries in my own life?


28 comments:

  1. Ah, the questions we all ask ourselves…
    1. This is the boundaries issue- I didn’t really understand the word “enmeshed” either, but boundaries make sense to me – I was raised with no boundaries at all – and boundaries are meant to protect you, to keep you safe. I had no personal toys (They were all put into a large box in the basement.), my mother periodically came into our rooms and dumped our drawers into the middle of the floor if she thought they weren’t tidy enough, doors could not be locked in my FOO. But worse were the more personal boundaries – everything that happened was somehow my fault and it was my responsibility to fix it, if the GC wanted anything at all, I had to give it to her, I wasn’t considered a person in my own right. In my FOO, anyone who didn’t look like my Nmother, or didn’t dress like my Nmother or didn’t act like my Nmother was suspect – any personality trait that wasn’t my Nmother’s wasn’t validated – instead, it was mocked. All girls except the GC were treated as if we were gender-less – we weren’t worthy. In order to get attention from Nmother, you had to link up with the GC – then you got reflected attention. So in a boundary-less home, it’s really tough to figure out who you are, where you begin and end, what you like or don’t like, what you believe, what you hope and dream. You don’t have a real identity – you’re “other” unless you’re the GC. So as adults, we have to figure out all of those questions in addition to figuring out what types of boundaries different people in our lives require – for me, with the N’s in my family I have high brick and mortar walls with no entrance or communication possible (NC); with the border people, those who wish to continue the family myths and often set up appliances with the N’s, I need a high stone wall – at times, I can take down a row of stones and communicate with them, always keeping the stones near at hand in case they’re needed; with my loving and trustworthy siblings and dear friends, I can have a low wall that we can talk over, hug each other, and laugh together without invading each other’s identity. That was a lot, so I’m off – there are one or two more I’d like to write about, but maybe tomorrow.
    Toto

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Toto for you input! Your examples were very helpful. I, too, often had my drawers dumped out in the middle of the room if they were not perfect. Perfectly folded, perfectly lined up. I always wondered what in the hell it mattered as long as my clothes were folded and put away how perfectly they were lined up.

      "In my FOO, anyone who didn’t look like my Nmother, or didn’t dress like my Nmother or didn’t act like my Nmother was suspect – any personality trait that wasn’t my Nmother’s wasn’t validated – instead, it was mocked" This comment really rang a chord with me in relation to my in-laws and their enmeshment. I've always felt that my NMIL was threatened by anything that she wasn't herself. So, when I met my DH, it was almost like she handed my the "uniform" and the "manual" for HER family. "This is how we operate. This is what we believe. This is who WE are." There didn't seem to be any room for anything else. And my differences were mocked (often publically) and held up as oddities. My differences in opinion were dismissed and not discussed. I felt like I either needed to be one of them or nothing at all.

      Delete
  2. I am already up past my time for sleeping. Tell you what...I asked some of these same questions. You are not alone in asking them. I'll give you one quick example of enmeshment. My Nmother has a computer problem, she emails me, and since she has a problem I of course reading her email and running to her house to fix it. She treats me like an extension of herself, in almost everything. If she likes it, I must like it. If she wants something, than I must want the same thing. Close family member recognize where they end and you begin. I'll try this example: Apples in a box are healthy. All rotted and smushed together apples is not healthy or edible. I had to pull away from being enmeshed before I could see what it did to me. Perhaps one way to view it, I didn't exist except how I could be used by NM. I wasn't separate with my own thoughts and needs. More later..
    Ruth

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My NP do something similar to me. If I published something, my mother should have the right to just take it. If I say something, she gets to appropriate it as her own idea. My NF lives a life of luxury. I, as mere extension of him, am therefore also "comfortable." It's crazy.

      Delete
    2. Thanks Ruth for the examples. That is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I'm trying to explain some of this to DH. I'm trying to explain that his family isn't healthy in their complete lack of boundaries. His parents also often call and expect him to help solve problems. I've told him that his parents are grown adults and should not need another adults input in order to buy a car, go on vacation, etc. While a person may solicit advice or consult someone with knowledge, they don't REQUIRE input in order to make these decisions. And in the end, they shouldn't just take his opinions, but take in ALL the information they have and make their OWN decisions.
      NMIL also has the opinion that everyone should share opinions, likes, and beliefs. She takes it personally if someone doesn't agree with her. And you can't all have seperate, but equal, opinions. It's black and white. What she likes (believes, wants) is right, and if you don't agree, you are wrong. And in an effort to maintain enmeshment, I've seen NMIL adopt ideas and thoughts that she clearly doesn't agree with, just to maintain a "closeness" with someone. You can see she's conflicted about it, but she clearly feels badly if she doesn't like the same things I (or DH) like.

      Cal's Sis, thanks for you thoughts too! You mom seems to be the Queen of enmeshment from what I've read!

      Delete
  3. Just.... wow. Jessie, are you a genius? I mean this seriously. The way you write and express yourself, your deeply profound thoughts. I'm amazed by you. This is GOOD.

    I'm going to be thinking about what little bit of experiential wisdom I might have to share on these brilliant insightful questions of yours, but I'd better wait until tomorrow. I accidentally took my husband's medication tonight and I'm feeling even whackier than usual. (Yeah. And me, a licensed nurse.)

    Good-night, amazing one.

    Charity

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, Charity, you flatter me. Ironically, I actually felt a bit sheepish about publishing this post. In relation to what we were discussing on Upsi's latest post, I worried that my fellow ACoNs might think I was ignorant or silly. Or that they would question me. That I might be attacked for feeling the way I do. Nothing in the ACoN community really made me feel this way, but rather my own insecurities about myself. I hate putting myself out there if I'm not 100% about what I'm saying or if I'm exposing some weaknesses.

      Delete
  4. Some of these terms are tricky! I had to look up enmeshment.

    Besides the emotional aspect of it, enmeshment also occurs when boundaries are so trampled that they don't even exist.

    Here's an article with a great example: http://www.imaginehopecounseling.com/fullarticles.php?ID=55

    Here's my personal example:

    Thank you notes are a nice gesture. Growing up, I was expected to send them for any gift I received. Fine. Whatever. This continuted even AFTER I became an adult and had moved out of the house. And if I did't get them mailed out in what my parents deem to be a timely fashion, I would be reminded about it every time I talked to them until I did it.

    We had received a gift for our wedding - I thought the woman who gave it to us was an great-aunt (because my EM was adamant that she be invited to the wedding), but it turns out she was just one of my grandmother's neighbors who had remained a friend after she moved away. My Ngrandmother was getting ready to go visit her, and wanted to make sure that I had sent a thank you card for her gift, so that SHE wouldn't have to hear about it while she was down there.

    I thought that was a little weird, but whatever. What really irked me was the fact that my grandmother was going through my parents to give me this information. When I asked NF why grandma couldn't have just called me directly, he said "It's because she has a hard time hearing you on the phone" (Turn up your damn hearing aids - I know you could hear me when I answered the phone when I lived at home).

    Then I said that if she had such a hard time hearing she could send me a note in the mail because she has my address, and who doesn't love to get a letter?

    And then I was called an ungrateful little bitch.

    I could go on and on....

    Grey

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Grey, thanks for taking the time to contribute. I appreciate your thoughts.
      My DH's grandparents often send messages through DH's parents. I never understood that. They are fully able to call (and do). But when they wanted to know what we wanted for a baby gift, it came through his parents. His parents call us to arrange visits if the grandparents are coming into town. They also call and insist we visit his other grandparent when we are driving through. It irritates me that 1) DH's parents feel they need to be in the middle of it all. With the gifts, when the grandparents had issues with my wedding registry, I heard about it from NMIL. She pushed and prodded me to change the whole thing to accommodate the grandparents (and thereby, screw a lot of our other guests). It seemed like a really over complicated game of "telephone". 2.) Their interference makes me feel like a child. DH and I often visited this particular grandparent. We did not need "reminders". Often we were not able to stop and visit this grandparent on the way through because we have two small children and the trip is an 8 hour drive as it is. And often, the kids were napping during the time we were driving through, and the timing just wasn't good. With little kids and long drives, you work on THEIR schedule to make it as pleasant as possible. But my in-laws didn't think about that at all. Just guilt compounded by obligation. And again, treating us like children. We did not need them to "referee" our relationship with this relative.

      And the thank you cards. I always send thank you cards. I do not expect them in return. I appreciate them, but do not expect them. Well, I'm pretty sure that NMIL sends me, and only me, thank you cards because she's trying to "impress" me. It's not about thanking me, but about "appeasing" me. It irritates me that she sends me a thank you card because she thinks I'll think better of HER for doing it. It feels so inauthentic.

      Delete
  5. Jessie, these are important questions, and I'm impressed by your strong sense of ethics and compassion. I think it's a very hard issue, where enmeshment picks up from normal connection. I think your own emotional condition gives you the answers. If you continually feel that you are giving away too much of yourself, if you feel affectively trespassed on in ways that you can't actually identify, much of the time, if you feel "on a hook" for the emotional conditions of your NM and NSis, then you are enmeshed. One thing you're not responsible for is congratulating your mother that she is not as bad as her own was. If she treats you horribly, that's that. My own NM was disowned by her parents. I get it, but empathy with a narcissist will never get you anywhere except more enmeshed in their web. My mother too should have learned more, was able to learn more, pretends that she did learn (in her self-help book). But she didn't really see how deeply she resembles her own parents. You cannot make them see. Your empathy is not something you owe to a mother who treats you horribly. The fact that you are even wondering about the ethics of this demonstrates how the enmeshment is working. I, just like you, struggled with this for decades, excusing what my NM did and her treatment of me, out of compassion and empathy and understanding of her background. Frankly, she used what her parents did to her as a scimitar to hold over our heads. I think it's extremely hard to get ourselves clear of enmeshment emotionally. Cognitively, sure. Emotionally, takes much longer. But the stress and depression are telling you you are giving away too much.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Cal's Sis, this makes a lot of sense to me. And I think I do still excuse her. My father (before the divorce) used to excuse her a lot because of NM's childhood. And NM has always pounded it in my head about how hard her life was, how horrible her parents were/are, etc.
      I do think, however, that part of my desire for empathy is not for NM, but for me. That is a part of who I am. Is it possible to feel empathy for her as an ACoN, but separate that from my feelings for her as my mother. I don't want to hate my mom (again, for me, not for her. I am not someone who hates). I really, really want to remove all of my emotional connection from her. But I am a compassionate and understanding person (without excusing others either) and I don't want to remove that because of what she's done to me. Is it possible to be compassionate but separate it from the excusing? Or am I deluded?

      Delete
  6. #5 - I've struggled with this one, too - am I just doing the same thing that's been done to me over the years? Am I just being immature and petty by going NC with the 3 Weird Sisters? But I think it comes back to boundaries - even at this late date, I'm expected to just "be" my role in the family - if I try to be who I really am, all hell breaks loose! So I do have to distance myself - I'm 62 and I still cannot be myself with most of my NFOO - it's gone down another generation. And they do have each other - I've always been only a provider of supply, so although they miss the supply, they certainly don't miss me. They have no idea who I really am - they see me only as the role that was given me in early life and nothing more. Staying involved with them allows them to continue to remain immature and focused on the family myths. At least this way, one of us gets out of the enmeshment! Toto

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are right, Toto. One of my earliest inklings that something was wrong with the my FOO was that I felt I couldn't be myself, at all. And that really, no one was interested in me as a person. Only as the sounding board, the listener, the "family therapist". I was the support, for everyone. And I was exhausted. And attempts to say I was struggling were met with "well, you think YOU have it bad?! Atleast you have a husband and a home and...." blah, blah, blah. They don't know me at all, nor do they care. In fact, I often think NM doesn't even really like the "real" me when moments of it peak out.
      I also have felt this with my in-laws (the other narcs in my life). I never felt like I could just be me. I always felt like a cardboard cutout. The life-size 2 dimensional version of myself. Sure, they know some surfacey stuff about me. But when I try to really discuss something, or talk about something, they tune out or talk over me or walk away. I always felt like a "place filler". You know, like the person at the Oscars who sits in the celebrities seat when they go to the bathroom. Just someone to fill the role. And that I am dispensable. It's funny too, the "scapegoat" in that family (the one with a learning disablity, low IQ, and social functioning issues) always tells me that he can only be around his family so long too, because he also doesn't like who he "has" to be when he's around his family. It amazed me that this person who has been branded the "slow" family member, understood so well that he was not the same person around his family, that he didn't like it, and that he had to get away from it to be "better". Probably why he and I bonded so much. I didn't care what the family "legacy" for him was and I just let him be who he wanted to be.

      Delete
  7. There is so much to discuss here... I wonder whether you'd be happy to break up the post and we could deal with one theme at a time and discuss it over a few days so that we have time to take it all in. I think it's worth spending a bit of time on these issues since they seem to affect all of us. But for now I'll say that I don't think you're overanalysing. We only "over analyse" because we are trying to make sense of a reality which nobody else around us seems to acknowledge. It made me think of the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. Only one child was willing to tell the truth. According to the wikipedia article, Andersen changed the story slightly: "In the source tale, a king is hoodwinked by weavers who claim to make a suit of clothes invisible to any man not the son of his presumed father; whereas Andersen altered the source tale to direct the focus on courtly pride and intellectual vanity rather than adulterous paternity". I think it's very interesting that in the original story the ones who dared to speak the truth would have been "labelled" illegitimate children, so you can see the double bind here: you either lie and go along with everybody else or tell the truth and be looked down upon. Not that different from our experience of trying to tell the truth, is it?
    I think what also comes into place and it's a similar theme in the story too is that for lot of people, as long as it does not affect them, they're not that bothered about the truth, of course it's different a story when they themselves stand in the line of fire, then they're quite happy to analyse.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Kara, I loved you analogy with the story. I do often feel like the illegitimate child. And your thoughts on how it relates to analyzing are so insightful. It is sad that so many people only care about the truth when it affects them directly. I guess, for me, I need to fight for the truth, whether it's mine or someone else's. And you never know when your turn in the line of fire is next.

      I'd be more than willing to brake up the post if the need arises. I'm not sure quite how to do that, as there seems to be a good thread of comments going on here. But I'll think on how to separate it all out.

      Delete
    2. "I guess, for me, I need to fight for the truth, whether it's mine or someone else's" This is the way I feel too.
      I have another idea about the post. When everybody has finished putting in their feedback, maybe you could do a post on each subject with your conclusions. But please don't feel you have to if you think it's going to take too much of your time. Realistically we can only spend so much time blogging with all the other stuff we need to do too.

      Delete
    3. That's a really good idea Kara. I have so many blog posts floating in my head lately that I'd like to get down. But, I definitely think this all would be worth further exploration.

      Delete
  8. Hi Jessie, my thoughts aren't very organized.

    On #1, enmeshment. I see my GC brother as enmeshed. His needs, his feelings (esp. his much-celebrated "depression") have always been priority One for NM. And he has milked it for all it's worth. He started pulling suicide stunts when I was 15, and has pulled them regularly for more than 30 years, even in front of his kids when they were small, with NM rushing to his "rescue". He was grown, graduated from college, and had his own house by the time I was in high school. But I would come home from school to find him and NM huddling over the breakfast bar like lovers, hushing their conversation when I walked in. It was bizarre, but I didn't have the grasp of language or the ability to convey what just struck me as wrong or "off" about it. Even after he got married (at age 30), he would call on "Mommy" and talk at length about everything personal. He turned to Mommy, not his wife. And still does. My sister-in-law, according to my husband, "laughs it off," but I think she's largely in denial, not seeing what she doesn't want to see, and being the dutiful "good Christian wife" instead of being honest about how unfair the whole situation is to her. She has zero self-esteem, and it's evident. She's completely trapped, and will never stand up to them. My NM, of course, is deeply critical of her (behind her back), for appearance, housekeeping, cooking, parenting, her driving, her dietary dislikes -- you name it. But she does whatever it takes to stay in NM's good graces, allowing my mother to trample the proper boundaries of her marriage. And my sister-in-law has adopted the proper condescension, aloofness, hostility and dismissiveness of me, again to stay in good graces with the screwed up dynamics of my FOO. Despite the fact that I've been her only real friend through the years, through holidays, my brother getting fired from jobs/getting arrested, and her breast cancer and some other medical emergencies.

    On #3, I was so never taught how to stand up for myself, that it feels really selfish and dangerous to do so. I was always at fault by my FOO's reckoning, and so now realizing that maybe I wasn't always at fault has made me suspicious of those trying to fault me. Are their perceptions of me true? Or is what I know to be true about myself really the truth? Or am I just biased? At the same time, I feel like I need the emotional walls until I feel safe, if I'm going to get to a place where I can feel safe. So maybe for now just trying to get to where I can safely feel anything at all is the work laid out for me.

    On #5, was it Dr. Phil? Because I saw it too, and thought he was WAAAAY off base, and has no grasp, no clue of the psychological, mental, emotional hell that her NM and GC sister have put her through. I think the whole ACoN experience is not something he gets.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Brace for taking the time to comment. Your mom and brother definitely sound enmeshed to me too. I also have BIL calls "mommy" to discuss every little bit of his marriage. She consoles him, tells him it's not his fault, and takes his side. Always. But SIL is enmeshed with her own mother and they team up on the other side. Not surprisingly the drama gets played out between the two MILs. These adults probably spend more time discussing life and their schedules and their kids and their problems with their mothers than they do their spouse. I've always found that to be weird. They think they are just "close". But their is lots of talking behind people's backs, resentment, and complaining about things with no resolution.

      On feeling selfish, it's so hard to know what is "normal" and acceptable. I hate that I have to struggle and work so hard to figure out how to feel and how to take care of myself. How to know when someone is being mean and critical and when something they say should be taken to heart and maybe be something I could work on.

      And yes, it was Dr. Phil. I actually happened to just catch this segment. I think his attitude and faulty assumptions are what makes being an ACoN so difficult in society. Like we are just being big babies and "turned out backs" because we had a little tiff. That if we all go to therapy and "put the past behind us" everyone can be a happy family. I found it particularly appalling that he let the GC rail against the woman, calling her horrible names and, in my view, being verbally abusive. GC wasn't saying anything constructive but was just rushing to the poor, silently crying NM's side to defend her by attacking the woman. It didn't seem that his goal was not for each of the women to be independently healthy, whatever that might've required, but to maintain the Familial Status Quo: that which says everyone has to maintain the family at all costs.
      And I realize he's just a TV moron reaching for ratings, but I do think his mentality signifies so much about what we are up against in trying to get people to understand us. His blanket "She's your mother and no one loves you like your mother" b.s. makes me want angry.

      Delete
  9. My mom is of the engulfing covert variety of narcissists, so one of the first tasks I set to years ago was trying to "individuate" along a healthy adult path. Being enmeshed for me means not feeling separate, not feeling developed on my own. Not being able to tell the difference between her opinion of me and "me" in reality. That sort of thing. Your questions are very lovely and I wish I had answers, but I ask the same ones. I haven't found rock-solid answers and I'm still asking, still trying to settle on those distinctions you're trying to draw.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Not being able to tell the difference between her opinion of me and "me" in reality."
      I think that speaks to my feelings perfectly. I never know if I'm really me or just some concocted version of me that the narcs in my life keep telling me I am. I tried to start separating years ago (it was easier to do because she was so focused on the GC and her shit) but when NM came back around for me, she pointed to the "new" me as bad, rebellious, "not myself", and blamed DH (which I know you're familiar with).
      Thanks for your comment, Upsi. It means a lot to me that you took the time to answer. I've always seen so much of my mother in your posts (my mother is also an engulfing, covert narcissist. Your wedding story in particular, resonated with me and reminded me of my wedding.)
      I realize that these are not easy questions and maybe the answer isn't "out there" to find. I think I just needed a dose of "reality" from everyone out there. That, and I'm trying to answer some questions that DH has put to me lately as I work to explain all of this to him.
      Thanks again, Upsi. For your comment here, your blog, and your inspiration. I know you are still working on it too, but your thoughtful words have helped me so much, as I know they have others.
      Also, you had mentioned getting back to listening to music the other day on your blog. Thanks for that too. I'd forgotten the music in my life. How much I've used it to calm my spirit in the past. I spent an hour listening to my favorite songs last night (and doing the dishes) and it gave me a moment of peace.

      Delete
  10. Unless you are on the inside, it's pretty hard to distinguish a close family from an enmeshed family. For example, my E-Sis still lives with our parents, and falls into my stated age range (25-35). And when she stays out late, a simple "I'll be out late" is not sufficient. She must text message my mother when she gets home, because walking in to wake her is "too startling" and so is calling. Unless you were on the inside, you'd likely never know that was happening.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Self-absorbed – I’m actually working at becoming more self-absorbed. I’ve spent most of my life taking care of people and I think it’s time I stepped back from that. Unfortunately, all of this wonderful knowledge about myself comes at a time when my husband is facing dementia, so my self-involvement has a limited shelf life!! I’ve gone NC with three of my six sisters and it’s heavenly – they were malicious at my Nmother’s deathbed and I’ve decided that I no longer want any involvement with them. EVER. That was their last hurrah. Enough. This is viewed by a lot of the world as self-serving – and it is, actually. I just don’t see any reason to continue to subject myself to their constant lies, gossip, and defamation so that they can build themselves up at my expense. My role was to give Nsupply and I’ve been behaving badly in their eyes – no supply, alas, from me, hence the disparaging behavior from them.
    I’m working really hard at seeing N’s quickly and dismissing them from my life – I’ve had a bellyful of N’s in my life and believe that I no longer have to deal with them. I am also working at not being seen by them – they do spot us so quickly, don’t they? It’s getting better, but sometimes I have to be so obvious – I walk away in the midst of the 3rd recitation of the same story, I turn my back on them, I avoid them like the plague – it takes a long time for them to get the idea that someone isn’t interested in their very selves. Self-serving? Absolutely!!! And I’m trying hard to get better at it!
    My Nmother was the essence of femininity in my Nfather’s eyes, so only the sister (NC) who looked like my mother was valued as a female. The rest of us were considered gender-neutral – not “good enough” to be boys, but not perfect specimens, either – like it wasn’t hard enough to grow up a girl in the 50’s and 60’s!! So I’m finally working at being more feminine – probably would be considered self-absorbed, but it’s more of a case of too little, too late… Why wasn’t I allowed to express my femininity when I was young? Why did that threaten my Nmother’s very self? Who knows? But I’m making up for lost time!
    I don’t think that most of us ACoN’s have to worry about being self-absorbed – we have to worry about being ACCUSED of being self-absorbed, though! Take care of yourself, enjoy being you and knowing who you are, learn to enjoy life and relationships that are healthy and reciprocal, and if that means you’re accused of being self-absorbed, say “Thank you” and find someone else to talk to!!! Toto

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Toto for your help! What you have said makes a lot of sense. And I agree, being self-absorbed at some times might not be such a bad thing. I think I'm just trying to find that line between taking care of myself and being a good human being. Sigh, it's a lot of work.

      Delete
    2. I don't think looking after ourselves makes us self-absorbed; the way I've been looking at it is that I am responsible for myself and there are things that I have to take care of that no one else can do for me. This is what it means to be a an adult, doesn't it?
      I think what happens when we try to fulfil our responsibilities for ourselves and our families instead of putting everything on hold for our Nfamilies as they are used to, is that they start screaming: "selfish/self-centred/self-absorbed" because it doesn't suit them to lose their unpaid servants/therapists/caretakers/sounding boards, therefore they manipulate us with the underlaying message that "if you look after your stuff and not mine you're an extremely selfish person". Can you see what a double bind this is too? If we do what they want us to do, we feel bad because we know that we're being used and our work is piling up for us; if we say no, we are labelled a "selfish person". Because they know that we would rather die than being that type of person, they use it against us. There is nothing "self-absorbed" about taking care of oneself and one's responsibilities. They just want us to believe it is so they can carry on manipulating us at will.

      Delete
    3. Thanks Kara! That makes perfect sense to me.

      Delete
  12. Over analyzing and overly sensitive – always, we were “too much” of everything! We thought too much, felt too much, were too big, too small, too fat, too thin, too tall, too short, too loud, too shy, we laughed too much, cried too much- were, in general “too much” for the Nparents to cope with – and all this while just being children! These accusations should be tossed away with so much else we were told that was just to make sure the Nparents didn’t have to actually parent their children. When my children were young and I was trying to parent them (without any adequate modeling), I often thought about how I would feel if someone said something of that sort to one of my children – and I was appalled to think that anyone would say anything to such small people! Yet I was a small person who was talked to in such an absurd way most days of my young life.
    N’s are consistently shallow people, so any analyzing is over analyzing to them – if you’re the type of person who needs to analyze your life (and we know the outcome of an unexamined life), then analyze away!!! What in heaven’s name can it hurt? So much of what we saw and heard as children didn’t mesh with reality – and at some point in one’s life, that has to be examined or we continue to live with family myths. Most of my siblings don’t want to look at our Nfamily and how it affected them and as a result, have continued the myths into the next generation – it’s too bad that under analyzing isn’t seen as an issue!!!
    And how can anyone raised by Nparents NOT be considered overly sensitive? Every emotion I had was mocked or denied. I shouldn’t cry over a pet dying, I shouldn’t cry over a friend’s brother dying – after all, I didn’t really know him. I shouldn’t giggle so much – nothing was that funny. Good heavens!!! So many of us were stoic for so long, suffering pain that was too much for a child to bear – and were called overly sensitive if we displayed any emotion at all- again, it was all too much for the Nparents to deal with, so it had to be done away with. And now when I’m lied about, scoffed at, and made to feel that what I believe and feel is not important, I’m still called overly sensitive – but not sensitive enough about the needs of the Nsiblings! There I apparently fall short! Ah, Nfamilies are so crazy-making!!! If God made you a sensitive person who feels things deeply, accept that about yourself and view it as a gift!!! I’d rather be “overly sensitive” than a creepy lying, slandering witch, which I’m thinking wasn’t God’s intent for the WWW and her Flying Monkeys!!! Toto

    ReplyDelete
  13. I don't know your sister or why she's not communicating with you now, but I can tell you a story about my sister, the GC. At one point, GC had wanted me to babysit for her while she and her husband got away because she "really needed a vacation." I told her I'd check with my husband because the week she needed someone was the week that we normally went with our children to see The Nutcracker in a city that was a distance away and we normally spent 2-3 days. In the meantime, I called my Nmother about something else and learned that GC had recently returned from my grandparent's cabin - hmmmm... She had just had a week's vacation in a place normally offered to the whole family -I asked my mother why she had offered the cabin to only the GC and got a typical response: Poor GC - she has the two boys and she really needed a break. Now, at this point, I also had 2 children and was fostering a mentally disturbed child. Hmmmm... When I said this to Nmother, she told me that there was a celery-colored wool coat in the attic that might be nice for my daughter. I told her to give it to GC. So when the GC had a baby 10 months later, she didn't let me know. When another sister called and told me that GC had had her baby, I wondered out loud if I should send something - my 9 year old daughter tugged at my sleeve and asked why I would send something to a person who didn't even want me to know she'd had a baby. From the lips of babes... Toto

    ReplyDelete