So, there has been no progress with NSis, other than to say that she has been avoiding her immediate family like a champ. She's been vague and contradictory in her statements. She has been telling everyone she is "just too tired to talk about it anymore" and that's why she won't answer or return phone calls. This, I find ironic, considering she hasn't really talked to any of us at all about it. We are all still as confused as we were to begin with.
To add to that, a close family member is very sick. DH had to find out about this in a round about way, too. And I wonder why no one could pick up the damn phone to call him instead of making him hunt around for information. He finally got a hold of his mother. And one thing she said stuck with me. They got to discussing my son's upcoming birthday party. Usually, I'm pretty good about sending out invites and letting everyone know ahead of time. But this year, I got tired of everyone just sitting around expecting me to take care of it all. They all know the 2 weekends the party might be, and if they needed more concrete plans, they could call and ask (or wait for the invitation). Anyway, when DH told NMIL the weekend, she said "Oh, I'm glad you told me because we had plans already." I found this to be passive-aggressive in itself. Kind of a little, "took you long enough to tell me. You're lucky I can even make it because we have a busy schedule. blah, blah, guilt, blah, blah, passive b.s." And as a little side note, NMIL makes a huge deal of her grandkids. She will drop anything at anytime to do anything for them. I think this is good in little doses, but a bit weird in a constant, obsessive way. And when it comes to the party in the past, she always acts surprised that I'm having one. Although, I have them every year. She never makes any attempt to reach out, offer help, find out the plans, or figure out a birthday gift on her own. She expects us to give her ideas for gifts, then always screws it up somehow and expects us to fix it. For a very competent women, she sure struggles with ordering things online. Anyway, last year she made a huge deal about not knowing where the party was going to be. I told her her husband would know. I suggested googling it. I ended up sending a map to EFIL (because he is more familiar with our town and I thought the map would be more meaningful to him.) Well, when they showed up at the party, she makes a loud statement about how they had to follow BIL because they didn't know how to find the place. Whatever. Back to the situation at hand. So, DH tells her the weekend. And she says "Oh, it's not the next weekend? I'll be in town babysitting that next weekend for (cousins)." To me, this reeked of passive-aggressiveness. To me, what she's saying is "oh, not next weekend? Because that would be better for me. Then I wouldn't have to cancel my plans. And then I can trot the cousins over and look like the awesome grandma I know I am. And I can pretend I'm the mom again doing things with the kids. And it'll give me something to do with the kids while I babysit. So, can't you change it to accommodate me?" Maybe I'm reading a little too much into it. But I know that my gut isn't totally wrong. That she's trying to plant little seeds in DH head without having to directly ask. I mean who says "Oh, not the next weekend?" as a response? Where would the confusion be?
I tried to point it out, as gently and tactfully as I could. I made sure that I had the conversation right before I brought up my point. He was offended. He believed I was over-analyzing the situation. He said that that wasn't how the conversation went, that for me to take everything as word for word transcribing and base my assumptions on that was off base. That he couldn't remember the exact words and wasn't sure if that's what she said. Sounded like damn excuses to me. Typical excuses of why she didn't mean it, or I misheard, or I was reading into things. I tried to explain that people don't just spit out words for no reason. That, almost everything someone says is meant to communicate to (manipulate?) someone. But, I dropped it. I had told him my thoughts. It wasn't going to do any good to go round and round about it. But sometimes it can be so frustrating. I hate that she can whisper little things in people's ears and they don't even recognize that she's doing it.
This is when Ns get so confusing, because why was she saying they already had plans, that they wouldn't be able to come to the party?
ReplyDeleteNo, they are coming to the party. She was saying that they already had plans, and now would have to cancel them. Which was not really necessary, in my opinion, to say. It was a passive-aggressive way to say that she was unhappy that she had to change her plans and that my husband should have informed her of our plans earlier (which is ironic, since she is the queen of last minute stuff and thinks she's so "go with the flow.") I think the truth comes out in the two statements put together. What I think she's really saying between her two comments is "Well, I thought you'd have the party the following weekend, so I made plans. And the following weekend works better for me, and I want you to change your plans to accommodate me. Because I don't want to change my plans. And you are inconveniencing me. And everything should revolve around what is going on in my life."
DeleteI think it just irritates me because she doesn't consider that there are 15 other people to accommodate too. Or that the following weekend we would have to move the party to Sunday (because she also has plans on Saturday) and that it is a three day holiday weekend and we would be asking everyone to give up there holiday weekend. She also doesn't consider that my son's aunt and uncle will be out of town and can not go. It's just all about her. And she always expects us to just drop everything for her, but when she has plans we need to work around her still. And why she would make plans knowing full well that that might be the weekend of the party, I don't know. She made plans the last time we had his party too and had to rush in from her weekend, so it's not something that's a surprise to her. And she knows how to pick up the phone and ask what is going on. If she has such a "close" relationship with her son, don't you think she could communicate with him? Instead she just goes about her life, acting oblivious and then slinging little arrows when we don't do what she wants.
Sorry for the little tirade here. It just frustrates me. Especially that it's so sneaky and underhanded that you can't really pin her to it.
"And why she would make plans knowing full well that that might be the weekend of the party", yes, I picked up on that too, who knows what on earth is going on in their heads, they're nuts and are going to drive us nuts too :P
DeleteWouldn't it be funny if when she said she already had plans your husband had replied: "Oh, that's a shame, don't feel obligated to cancel on our account"
I can understand why it must be so frustrating for you, it would be bad enough if she openly asked you to change a party that involved 15 other people but to be sneaky and underhanded about it is even worse.
Yes, it is frustrating too because DH doesn't see her little manipulations and schemes. She's good, I tell you.
DeleteAnd, I wouldn't mind changing the party or trying to accommodate her if she had some real plans, or something she'd discussed with me. But it is nothing important. I had taken your advice about letting other people "do the work" regarding this situation. I was tired of always reaching out and making a point to let her know all the details (and then still having her do what she wanted to do or making things complete complicated and acting helpless). I figured that she could reach out and ask things too instead of always expecting to be waited on. Or, DH could make the effort to deal with her or contact her. I stepped out of the equation. I was hoping that she would have to deal with the consequences of not being more proactive, but I'm guessing that she's just badmouthing me behind my back.
Too bad she can't just "not come" because of "her plans". There is just so much subversiveness to it all, it makes my head hurt.
Sounds like she's a true master of manipulation. They're the worst, the subtle ones, because they make it really hard for us to point out to others exactly what the problem is. I think if you stick with the "letting others do the work" it will help your DH to see what she's like because he'll be the one having to deal with it. I had a similar situation with an old friend of my DH and I was pointing out stuff to him about his friend and he just wouldn't see it, until I stepped aside. It took a bit of time but he saw it in the end.
DeleteI'm sorry you have to deal with this rubbish, as if hosting a party for 15 people wasn't enough work already.
Thanks for the support Kara. I'm hoping it will work out. She is a master. She was talking to DH about it all and offered to "help" and make a salad, etc. Funny how she never offers to help me, the person actually throwing the dang party. Plus, she managed to get a gift idea out of him, anyway, which bugged me. Got DH to save the day in the end, despite any actual work on her part.
Delete"And I wonder why no one could pick up the damn phone to call him instead of making him hunt around for information."
ReplyDeleteI think that would defeat the purpose of "getting sick" in the first place for them. I mean, if they or someone you know mutually is sick legitimately, then they end up milking it for all it's worth and getting tons of NS out of it. If they are LYING about being sick (or making it out worse than it really is) then they STILL get NS out of it. Attention-Whoredom is made up of equal parts secret keeping, drama, and suspense. Part of their NS comes in the form of forcing people to ask all the questions.
A narc never offers up the truth. They always expect everyone else to dig for it.
"For a very competent women, she sure struggles with ordering things online."
ReplyDeleteThere it is again, the playing dumb. Narcissists are professionals at this game. They figure, if they play dumb, then no one will catch them and they can just go right on doing what they're doing. Trying to avoid consequences at every turn.
It makes me so angry that literally EVERY move they make has a dark ulterior motive.
She loves to play dumb. Unless she wants to be in charge. Her favorite time to play dumb is when she's trying to avoid being responsible for things, because nothing is her fault, EVER.
DeleteThe other reason why they play dumb is to get others to do the job for them, instead of having to do it themselves.
DeleteYes, Kara, exactly! Then, if someone else does it, then the narc has no "real" responsibility. They can blame someone else for it all and maintain their "innocence". It's all smoke and mirrors.
Delete"So, can't you change it to accommodate me?"
ReplyDeleteEew. I remember that so well. Your in-laws were more passive-aggressive about it than mine (EFIL and L just came right out and told us that they had made other plans for the date of our daughter's first birthday party, even though I'd told them about the party three months in advance and watched L write it on her calendar. They just came right out and said, "Can't you do it a different day, to accommodate us?") but either way you slice it, it's shitty. What your NMIL is saying is that for one thing, her plans are more important than her grandchild's birthday party, and that she's so much more interested in the "image" of being the "doting grammy" than she is invested in actually being the loving grandparent she should be.
Yes, she likes to be a grandparent when it's convenient to her. And we always do it the same way every year, her acting surprised is all a big act.
Delete"Maybe I'm reading a little too much into it."
ReplyDeleteI'm always inclined to say that there is no such thing as "reading too much" into the the actions of a narcissist. In fact, we probably don't do it enough. In my experience, when you find yourself giving them the benefit of the doubt...don't.
"I tried to point it out, as gently and tactfully as I could."
ReplyDeleteTact is something I lack. I think I'm really straight-forward, and that's probably one of the things that narcissists hate about me. Maybe it's better though, to deal with them in more of a head-on way? Tact is something they can manipulate, something they can get around. The less you sugar-coat it, the less they have to lick.
True. I must have communicated poorly though. I meant I brought it up tactfully to DH, so as not to instantly set of his defenses.
DeleteNo no, you really didn't communicate it poorly. I just didn't read the next sentence. Once I continued reading it made perfect sense.)
DeleteCrap, never mind that last comment. I should have kept reading...I didn't realize you meant you were trying to be tactful to DH.
ReplyDeleteI'll revise: I still think it's better to be straight-forward and avoid sugar coating, but I can understand why it's important to be a little less...harsh (?) with your husband. I mean, the goal is not to hurt anyone's feelings, regardless who you are talking to, but I still think that focusing more on telling the hardcore truth is better than focusing on how to soften it up.
Then again, it really could be that's where I get in trouble in the world at large. I think there are probably a lot of people out there that think I'm just too harsh. That I'm not gentle or soft enough.
I think being truthfully, fully truthful, is important. And I don't think you always need to soften it up. But, I do think being tactful and trying to say things in the least offensive way possible is good. I think you can be tactful and kind in your truth telling and not have it be "sugar coated". Does that make sense? I mean, part of truth telling is that you want people to be able to receive it. But if it comes off as too harsh, they may be so off put from the beginning that they can't focus on what you're saying.
DeleteMakes total sense, and it's something I struggle with at times. My favorite (simplistic and dorky) example to illustrate this is the time I went to Dunkin Donuts to get a bagel and I went with a friend of mine. When we got there, I said, "I'd like a bagel. Please don't burn it." I didn't think of saying it any other way, but my friend turned to me and said, "How about, 'Please lightly toast it?'" And I thought, "Oh yeah. That is a softer way of saying the same thing." Except that, in my experience, whenever I had asked for a toasted bagel, they always burned it, so I was just being point-blank about how I wanted my damn bagel. And I was polite about it. I said please.
DeleteI just always thought it was funny that it didn't even come to my mind to say it any other way but that there were people out there who would think what I had said was rude because it wasn't tactful (?) enough. I rather like being a "please don't burn my bagel" kind of gal though.
But I agree with you that there is a kind, tactful way of saying something without it having to be sugar coated. I think people tend to get defensive really quickly if we aren't, at the very least, polite about it.
Oh, my friend, you crack me up. You must be a blast to go out with. I often wish I WAS able to be more blunt and too the point. There is definitely a time and place for that too and not beating around the bush can be a good thing.
DeleteI do wonder how the poor bagel person felt if they were not actually responsible for the previous burned bagels. Like, if it was me, I'd wonder "why is this chick assuming I'd burn her bagel?" And then I can see a lot of people burning your bagel just because they were offended that you'd assumed they would. People are funny that way. So, yes, blunt can be good and is called for in a lot of situations. But I think it's good to remember what your end goal is too, because being too blunt may not be the best way to achieve that goal ;).
I am learning so much from this blog. Thanks everyone. Keep writing. Got a day with my nm ncousin nauntie and golden boys three golden (badly behaved) children. Came on here for a bit of strength before I go - wish me luck!!
ReplyDeleteGood luck! That sounds like quite a day. I'm glad that coming here can give you a little boost in your day.
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