I got a text from my NSis today. Actually, two. The first said "I don't understand your blow up at me. If you want to cut me out of your life, fine, but if you'd like to talk, give me a call, or send me a text or email." The second text said "Hope you are well."
My stomach dropped and I instantly felt anxious and sick. I recognized this feeling as one that I feel the majority of the time when dealing with my sister. I never look forward to her calls and they always feel ominous to me, and have felt this way long before the recent incident. I also realize that she is very good about setting me on the defensive and making me feel that I need to rush to defend myself and deal with her. Thank God, I spent some time thinking about it, because my thoughts now are so far from my initial gut reaction (that is: I need to defend myself, she's accusing me, she's feeling cut out, I need to correct this and work through this).
I've become quite the apprentice of my friend Jonsi, and I need to do a little analysis here, in her style. As Jonsi pointed out, it is amazing that one little text can be so loaded.
"I don't understand your blow up at me." Let me remind you all of how the "blow up" went down. I was on the phone trying to get a hold of my father and husband. While I did see her calls coming through, I was attempting to gather my thoughts before talking to her. I did not realize that her calls where actually coming through when I hung up after not reaching my father (I called three separate numbers for him) and my husband (twice). While I was not answering her calls purposely, I was not hanging up on her. When I finally did answer her call, her first words were "Why are you hanging up on me?" I don't have to tell you her tone was aggressive and harsh. When I told her I wasn't (as I tried desperately to catch my thoughts and not feel like an animal backed into a corner) she interruped me "Yes, you were!" As I tried to remain calm, she again became aggressive. Everything I said she countered with an aggressive accusation against me. The last being that I hadn't been there for her the last month. That she has been having a horrible time and I hadn't been there for her. She was escalating and as I tried desperately to even talk, I felt steamrolled by her. That is when I "blew up" and told her I wasn't going to be dealing with her verbal assaults and hung up. I'm sure it shocked her, as I rarely "blow up" but I can't imagine that she "doesn't understand" why. I think what she is saying is that I had "no right" to blow up at her. That I was in trouble and needed to take my punishment from her.
This "blow up" statement also places the responsibility SOLELY on me. There is not even a hint that she has done anything wrong. I think she has been angry at me for awhile now, but she had nothing to pin me on, and this has given her the opportunity to "call me out" so to speak. It also makes her look like the victim.
The second part of "if you want to cut me out of your life" is completely ridiculous. I haven't cut her out of my life. I have not returned one phone call from her since this event (in which she didn't leave a message, and I've been sick, and she called at a completely inconvienent time for me). The last thing I said to her was that I wouldn't talk to her if she was going to be verbally abusive. At first, I felt badly that she thought I had cut her out of my life. Not because I felt bad for her, but I guess I felt exposed. I had never said I didn't want to have contact with her. And ironically (and I didn't think about this until hours after the text) she cut me off of her FB account. This was clearly a move to hurt my feelings, as she doesn't use the account at all. Frankly, neither do I except to share photos with my extended family and to keep up with them. But it was clear that my unfriending me, she was "opting" out of information about my life. So, how the hell am I cutting her out of my life? And she clearly doesn't seem to concerned about that. "Fine"? That's all she has to say? And then she lays the responsibility of communication again squarely on my shoulders.
So, what I see, is someone blaming me for the whole fall out, placing responsibility on me for fixing it, painting herself as the "bigger person", completely ignoring the big picture of how this went down, and someone who has made me out to be the transgressor. I also find it suspicious that this is the most she has contacted me in the past six months.
I am going to respond to this text. I plan to say to her that "I am sick. I will email you when I've gathered my thoughts on the manner." And then I plan to email her. I'm not sure how much I want to go into things with her. Frankly, I suspect this is a trap. I feel that she is not interested in maintaining or fixing our (non-existent) relationship. I wonder if she is trying to pull me out so that she can vent her anger on me. I wonder if I should first send out an abbreviated email to feel out the situation.
I do think that it is important to her that I lay down my redefined boundaries to her. I do think it's time that she knows I will no longer tolerate being dragged into the gutter of her dramas. She needs to know that I will no longer be there to solely support her and that I expect an equal relationship with her. She needs to know that I will not allow this chaotic and disturbing behavior around me, my kids, or my husband. She needs to know that I will not be chained to supporting her whenever and wherever she sees fit. I will expect a relationship in which she also shows genuine care and concern for me and my family. She will no longer be allowed to treat my kids and my husband with such little regard. I will not be her call girl to go to to solve all of her problems. I expect her to start taking responsibility for her own life. I want her to know that I do not feel that my being there in the past was helpful to her, and actual was harmful to my mental well being. I know longer want to live in fear of her phone calls and visits, as I know they will wind up in pure madness, negativity, and attention getting for her. I truly have no expectations that she will respect my boundaries or be willing to redefine our relationship. She wants me to go back to being her "second mommy" and I can't do that. So, I need to say this for my piece of mind.
I need to choose my words carefully, as she is a master of twisting things around. I am also fully aware that she will share my email with many people, most notably, NM. So, it is important I protect myself and not lay myself out too much on a limb. This is not a person whom I've ever had a close relationship with. She's like a "tamed" Tiger. I never know when she'll snap and rip my head off.
I had to ask myself today why I want to maintain a relationship at all with her. To be honest, I'm not really sure. Part of me feels like, somewhere, is one of the few people that I've felt I can be my "weird" self with. There is a part of her that knows me better than anyone else except my DH. She, in the past, has been one of the few people that I can, somewhat, be unguarded with. I also have felt that cutting her off completely would complicate matters significantly for me, as to how it relates to my FOO and extended family and I'm not ready to deal with that yet. As I see my sister rarely, maybe once every year and a half, it is possible to keep her at a distance.
So, friends, thoughts? Ideas? Word phrasing? Words of caution? I'm accepting any and all advice on this. I need to be very careful about what I say and I need your input. If you feel more comfortable emailing me, that would be great too. Thanks before hand for and and all of your help.
Hi Jessie,
ReplyDeleteMy first instinct is that this is a TRAP. I don't know what kind of trap, but it stinks.
The second thought I have is that she's looking for a fight (as you said, she's been mad at you, now she's looking for a reason). Don't go there.
This is just my gut instinct, but I would just ignore her. I think she cut you off of FB to instigate a fight, and was disappointed when you didn't bite.
You could be deliberately evasive, if you feel you have to talk to her at all. Don't Justify (I have a cold), or Argue, or Defend, or Explain. She knows the answers - she's just looking for a FIGHT!
Why she's in the mood for one, I haven't the foggiest! But I think she's drawing you in, any way she can.
Ignore. Avoid. Dismiss. Talk about the weather. Be intentionally evasive. Just don't engage, is my gut feeling! :-)
The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning your way. I, too, think she is looking for a fight or to unload her anger at me for not being there for her. She's positioned herself to be the "good guy" and she's baiting me to aggress against her in order to further point me out as the cold, unfeeling, and mean sister who is picking a fight while SHE's sick.
DeleteGood point on the FB thing. I never thought about it as bait (although some part of me must have because I told DH that I was not going to say a thing, even to NM. I knew how to respond, even if I wasn't sure what the hell I was responding to!)
I think your JADE advice is good. However, I do think I need to buy myself some time, and I feel she is escalating. If I don't respond, she will continue to bait and I ramp things up.
Part of me just wants to find a way to get her off of me. With the holidays coming up, she will continue to come at me. I'm just her latest target.
I think I need to respond, but vaguely.
Yeah, just be vague fog to her aggressions. If she screams that you obviously don't care about her, or hate her, or screams any kind of accusation at you, you can just calmly respond with variations of something like, 'It's interesting that you would say that,' 'Yes, I understand that you feel that way,' 'Well, I need to go to the toilet now, it's been purple for days...' The possibilities are endless.
DeleteShe probably will be coming after you whenever she wants regardless of what you do, although extreme boringness and disinterest and lack of reaction from you might put her off. --quartz
Yep, I think vague is a very good idea.
DeleteKara
I hear you - this is exactly what my NM does to me. I'm so fearful that if I don't give her some cursory response, that she's going to come after me with everything's she's got . . . and I always fear that I won't be able to withstand it! :-(
DeleteMaybe play dumb? I've never tried it, and it come backfire, but you could try pretending like you have no idea what she's mad about? I'm sure she'll let you know, and it'll be mean, but you could just keep acting like you don't understand (and as if you're actually trying?).
I once did a minor version of that in a quick reply to my NM (to do as you suggest, stave off a bigger attack!). I said something like, "I don't understand what you mean - I just spoke to you two weeks ago, I really enjoyed our conversation, I thought you did too.... What's the trouble?". I didn't mean a word of it, but it left her bewildered anyway and bought me time! ;-)
Try doing something unpredictable! :-) Maybe you could write her back and say, "OMG, ____! I'm glad you called! I wanted to tell you about what happened to me at the supermarket today! There was this lady who cut in front of me in line, and...." and just start into a three hour story about yourself and something mundane? ;-)
Maybe that's passive aggressive of me, I don't know! But mess with her if you have to talk to her - do something she's not expecting. She'll crawl back to her lair and devise a new scheme.
Gotta be like the road runner and side-step Wyle E Coyote's elaborate snares. ;-)
I must disagree with Quercus on ignoring NSIS. I think that it's something that Jessie has never attempted on this level before and I feel that it is a great opportunity for her to take her stand; especially since she is aware that it might be a trap. (She can't really be trapped, if she's aware that a trap has been set, right?) I believe that it would be a good time to state her boundaries with her sister and then see what her sister does with it.
DeleteI have to agree on JADE - don't justify, argue, defend or explain. But a statement of boundaries is none of those things, and I think that would be the point (?) of the message to her sister.
Jessie - another thought I had was that, if you don't want to dialog with her, don't ask her any questions. I know I had previously suggested that, but if you don't want to leave room for a response, asking questions just opens things up for her to respond.
Another thought on this: "If I don't respond, she will continue to bait and ramp things up." I've seen you make mention of this many times - the idea that if you don't respond in some way, she (or your mother, father, etc) will continue to bombard you. It's kind of like they have you trained so well that you'll act on just the anticipation and anxiety of what they might do, before they've even done it. Having said that, I know you know them well and that it is completely plausible they will do exactly what you're afraid of (ramp up their aggressive tactics) but, here's just another reason why I'm in favor of the statement of boundaries and needs: Because once you've stated them and she disregards them, you can ignore her. Truly ignore her, no matter how nasty she gets, no matter how many texts/emails/phonecalls she makes.
Here's a thought: Would you consider changing your phone numbers so that the only one ANYONE has access to is your home phone? That way, you can corral all messages to one spot (for the upcoming holidays, it might be easier for you to ignore messages and such). You can change your other forms of contact as well - emails for example. You can sort of corral the messages into one spot so that they can't bombard you all over the place. Just a thought, and if you don't want to do it now, there's always that option in the future.
"She probably will be coming after you whenever she wants regardless of what you do..."
DeleteExactly. Which means that even if you do respond to her, she'll still attack you. Nothing that you do will make her stop doing whatever she wants to do. Again, why I'm in favor of a statement of needs and boundaries.
Cranky Old Lady here :)
ReplyDeleteWhat about a version of: "so good to hear from you! I've been horribly ill and unable to call. I'm feeling better now, DH even says my voice is normal, LOL!! Please let me know you are ok! Love, Jessie" <-- that will throw her off her game AND put the ball in her court.
While I totally get this suggestion (throwing them off by not responding angrily) I often just feel like it's superficial and not dealing with the real issues at hand. I get the appeal of this kind of response, I just feel like it's not real. You know? I always had this issue with DH too, when he would ask, "Can't I just respond to her sort of superficially?" And I always fought that because it just didn't make sense to me. That's how he's always responded to her, wasn't it time to put his foot down and get serious and say, 'You know what? Things AREN'T fucking fine!" As much as being firm won't change things, being superficial won't either. Maybe it's just because I'm harsh, but I would rather be firm and real than superficial.
DeleteI think it would just kind of be avoiding the very real issues, you know?
Hi - yes, *sigh* I agree - but it's so exhausting trying to get them to understand. But you're right - Jessie, if you're going to deal with it, do it in reality and real-time and not all flippant - because you ARE trying to salvage something from this. My way only works (?) if you are really trying to have no further NO I MEAN IT NONE contact with someone. And it isn't necessarily a mature way to handle things *snort*.
DeleteI just hate these people so much. I hate giving them time or effort or love or support. HOWEVER - Jonsi is right (AGAIN STOOPIT SMART JONSI). This requires more than just sticking out my tongue at someone. :)
You're doing great Jessie. Just, as they say, keep swimming.
Gladys, you're so freaking funny.
DeleteOkay, so my thing is that no one can make anyone else understand anything, right? (Especially if the other party doesn't WANT to understand). But I think that's often what we're trying to do by communicating with them, we just don't like to admit it to ourselves.
I'm guilty of that, for sure. I think one of the toughest parts about communicating with narcissists, and in particular, narcissistic siblings, is in knowing when it is that you have done "enough." DH is dealing with it now too, as are many people in our community - the siblings for some reason are rising up to do their own versions of narc attacks. They've learned well from their predecessors.
But I'm with you Gladys, in hating these people. And sometimes it really does feel good to just stick out our damn tongues at them and say "FUCK OFF!" It get's so tiring always having to be the ones that have to walk away. Why can't we flip them off, for once, when they show up pounding on our doors; when they send us their blood money, when they make hundreds of phonecalls in the middle of the night but refuse to leave messages, when they call on us only in crisis time, when they hate all over our spouses and our loved ones?
This is such a hard war to have to fight. And none of us are done fighting our individual battles yet.
I think it's very important that you reassess your relationship with your sister based on the reality of what is, rather than on the fantasy of what could be. And that's what I see you doing: assessing, evaluating, making decisions. Laying down boundaries does not mean you will never have a relationship with her; it just means that the choice will be up to her whether or not she respects them and figures out on her own time what it takes to have a healthy relationship with you and your FOC. Chances are she won't figure it out or care to try because that's way too hard for her and she'd rather drown in her own self-absorbed bullshit. But by communicating your needs to her, you are giving her a chance. She'll either piss on it or she won't, but it's still in her court.
ReplyDeleteThen, your next job is to maintain those boundaries and keep yourself and your beautiful family safe. You're doing a good job, this isn't easy. It is, however, necessary.
Great analysis, by the way. (If it didn't sound so condescending, I was going to jokingly start off my comment by calling you "Grasshopper son." But I didn't because I know that this is a serious matter to you and I didn't want to make light of it.) I know how hard you are working at this - seeing things, setting boundaries, sticking to those boundaries, communicating clearly and honestly - and I really do want to say that I'm proud of you. You've come a long way, even in the short time you've been blogging, and you're ages away from where you would have been years ago, or even just one year ago. Bravo Jessie.
Aw, thanks. That means so much to me. And I liked the grasshopper reference. I like to cut the tension some times with a little humor.
DeleteI think I'm really feeling I need to set these boundaries. I think it is the best way to provide her a framework for having a relationship with me. I think providing her a way to have a relationship with me that's based in real love, not love at crisis time, might be what she really needs. And if she doesn't want that, then well, I can't say I didn't try. And I will know that she is making choices fully armed with all the information she needs from me.
YES!
Delete"I think providing her a way to have a relationship with me that's based in real love, not love at crisis time, might be what she really needs." This is a line I'd definitely like to read to DH, given what he's going through with his sister right now too. I told him yesterday that, in all this time, she's never once contacted him.
Until now. During a crisis. When she wants him for something. And that's just not what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like.
Hey Jonsi and Jessie,
ReplyDeleteI don't disagree with Jonsi - Jessie, if you've got the resources to set a firm boundary, and you're ready to, go for it! :-)
However, two points of real caution (I only say this 'cause they apply to ME - may not apply to anyone else, but it'll eat away at my conscience if I don't say something 'just in case'):
- if you were raised as a scapegoat from birth, you have chinks in the armour. You can STILL GET CAUGHT IN A TRAP you can see! You can make the error of thinking, "Ha! I see what you're doing! Forget it, it won't work!" and walk right into it and OUCH! Get stabbed with an emotional knife that your N had up their sleeve. While you might be successful in your mission (setting firm boundaries), I think it very wise to mention that you should expect some collateral damage. If you can handle a couple of dings and scrapes, go for it. If not, reconsider. They always have an ace up their sleeves.
- if you set a firm boundary with a N, they will see it as a personal attack. How does your NSis respond to perceived acts of aggression (i.e. WHY ARE YOU HANGING UP ON ME?!)? I think you have to anticipate that she'll lose it on you when you set boundaries. She might not, in which case no problem. But I have to warn you to prepare for the worst, just in case.
Setting boundaries is great, and if you feel you want to do it, and you can handle it today, go for it! :-) Just expect that it won't be easy.
I can only speak from my own experience, but every time I think I've got my N's sussed, and I can waltz right across their minefields unscathed, I get injured (and fairly badly, in my case anyway). I still vote for the passive-aggressive approach a la Gladys' suggestion, but if you feel the time is right to set hard boundaries with your NSis (again, expect a skirmish!), then you've got my 100% support! Do what feels right at the time (remember the link you sent me? Good advice - thanks again!).
Just remember that she knows your weaknesses, and N's do NOT fight fair. Expect a dust-up! ;-) (Expect the worse, hope for the best!). Set boundaries when you are feeling strong and determined, not when you think you ought to and are still quite vulnerable. I typically just wait a few days until my hormones are aligned...! ;-)
Thanks Quercus, for reminding me of this: "You can STILL GET CAUGHT IN A TRAP you can see!"
DeleteThat's one of my fears with DH - that no matter how well prepared he is, his 25 years of training with them will take over and he'll make that mistake that will cost him. Because they are so good at what they do and he's so new to all of this and it's hard, even for people who didn't come from this kind of dysfunction, to stand up to it all the time.
OH HELL, I dunno. I keep thinking about this Jessie. On the one hand, yeah - exceptionally good to deal with your sister head on and fact based. BUT BUT BUT
ReplyDelete(Jonsi, please chime in here, I'm trying to figure this out) -
What is your POINT in this whole ordeal? Because if it is for your sister (or entire family, really) to SEE that they are wrong, I think that is sort of hopeless. If you say "here are my boundaries" we all KNOW what is going to happen. Your sister is going to lose her sh*t and come after you using your mom, your dad, your third cousin, the police, etcetera world without end.
I sound so doomsday but experience had taught everyone in this situation that making boundaries is only Step: One in the inevitable course of going NC. At least, in every blog here that I have read. Anyone successfully going LC has moved far away from their NFAM. (mine died - hurray for easy endings!)
I know that you will want to know you did EVERYTHING you could to salvage your relationships. You are a loving, giving, wonderful sister and daughter. It's just that I sometimes feel like I'm watching a scary movie and one character goes out by themselves and we are all yelling at the screen "don't go out there!" I just want to keep you safe from heartache.
"I just want to keep you safe from heartache." <--I wish we could all do that for each other too.
DeleteHumor or head on each have their value. I finally decided to hit one of my siblings head on with appropriate boundary setting. I had my counselor help me write the letter so I could review what I was saying. I thought a letter more personal then an email. After the letter, he and his wife went no contact with me for over 6 months. I decided I wasn't upset about the out come. I am back in contact since we don't live far from each other but it is now on a very different footing. I am no longer hoping for a healthy out come. I am no longer tryint to fix things. I am in a very different place and the 6 months of no contact was a big relief. If you are all right with a no contact out come, it can take a huge load off your sholders to face it squarely. You know best what you want to do and how much contact is requested by your family during the holidays. You may want to wait until after the New Year. You know best what you need.
ReplyDeleteMy thinking is that when you speak to your sister (or your mother) you should try to stick to facts. Keep it short and simple, and in the present. Don't let them drag you into their drama. Ask them questions. I am curious what your sister would say if you said, "Just what did you think I should be doing for you? You never even once called me to tell me the whole story!"
ReplyDeleteThen again, asking her what she expects you to do for her might leave it open for her to ask for the sun, moon, and stars - I don't know. -Terry
There are two types of people when it comes to handling a truly disordered and dysfunctional family dynamic that is headed up by a malignant narcissist.
ReplyDeleteThose that have gone no contact.
And those that will go no contact.
The only person that will be willing to change is you.
The only person that will be respectful of boundaries is you.
If throw down with them, they may change for a while, but by degrees they will peck at you and your boundaries until you wake up and find yourself right back where you started.
This statement should probably be caste in gold and plaqued and then given it's own shrine.
DeleteI can dig it.
My shrink seems to indicate the same thing. I can quit 'playing the game' and leave (No Contact). Or I can keep playing the game slow, fast, quiet, loud, whatever - but would still be in the game (Low Contact).
DeleteEventually, you will get sick of the game!